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Largest Individuals of any Species

United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#16

Just looking back on KTZ-083 he was honestly a gargantuan beast, unfortunate not more pics were taken of him.
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peter Offline
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#17
( This post was last modified: 05-18-2016, 06:15 AM by peter )

Interesting, Tigerluver. Here's one more for you.

The Duisburg Zoo male Amur tiger called 'Amur' was measured by a vet during treatment. He was 320 cm. (10.6) in total length in a straight line (head and body 210 cm. tail 110 cm.). He was 110 cm. at the tip of the shoulder while standing. His head length was 50 cm.

The second tiger in the first photograph is not a cub, but a full-grown female (...). I've no idea about her length, but I have details of 2 adult females measured in the Prague Zoo by V. Mazak.

Tigress 'Tapka' (studbook no. 13) died in 1969. She was 257 cm. (8.5) in total length in a straight line (head and body 171 cm. and tail 87 cm.). At age 9, she was 85-86 cm. at the tip of the shoulder while standing. Tigress 'Mascha' (studbook no. 12) died a year later. She was 266 cm. (just under 8.9) in total length in a straight line (head and body 178 cm. and tail 88 cm.). At age 9, she was 87-88 cm. at the tip of the shoulder while standing.

In 2000, I measured and weighed and adult female called 'Volga' in a Dutch facility. At age 10, she was 254 cm. (8.4) in total length (head and body 167,5 cm. and tail 86,5 cm.). I also measured her head (girth 75,8 cm.), neck (64,5 cm.), fore-arm (46,5 cm.) and chest (112 cm.). Her weight was 136 kg. (300 lb.). Compared to other Amur tigresses, she was about average (a tad shorter).

Her daughter 'Jasmin' was the shortest Amur tigress I saw. At age 6, she was 223 cm. (just under 7.4) in total length (head and body 155,5 cm. and tail 67,5 cm.). Her head girth was 70,5 cm., her fore-arm 44,5 cm. and her chest 102,5 cm. Her weight was 102,5 kg. (226 lb.). Compared to other captive Amur tigresses, she was very small. Some wild Amur tigresses could be similar in length and weight (see for example 'Winter ecology of the Amur tiger', A.G. Yudakov and I.G. Nikolaev, 2nd revised edition, Vladivostok, 2012, pp. 78-80).

The longest I saw (in a Dutch zoo) had been weighed a few days before I talked to the vet. At 178 kg. (393 lb.), she was in excellent shape. This tigress compared to 'Volga' in many respects, but she was much longer and a bit taller. In some time, I will post an article I found on the internet some years ago. The article is about a tigress in a private zoo in France who. She had been shot, because she had killed her owner. This female was 204 kg. (451 lb.) 

Based on what I saw, I'd say most captive Amur tigresses range between 250-270 cm. in total length in a straight line and 100-145 kg. Although both wild and captive Amur tigers are quite uniform in size, exceptional animals seem to be more, ehh, exceptional than in other subspecies. Large animals quite often are so much longer and bigger, they seem to be in a different league.      

My guess is the Duisburg Zoo female most probably didn't exceed the limits mentioned for Amur females. She could be about average.    

Now for the question.

The Duisburg Zoo male Amur tiger was estimated (not weighed) at 280-300 kg. (618-662 lbs.) in his prime. What's your opinion? 


*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author
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United States tigerluver Offline
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#18

Great data @peter.

The Duisburg male has enough data for us to estimate him in a few ways. His body length of 210 cm is the most important piece.

Based on this photo and the male's length:

*This image is copyright of its original author


I measured the female to be around 160 cm, which seems like a ~115 kg female basing off the slightly shorter female Jasmin and the STP tigresses. So the male is 1.31x the female's length and 1.32x the female's chest girth from examining the photo.

If I were to estimate the Duisburg male based on this female, we get:

Length based: 1.31^3 * 115 kg = 260 kg
Chest diameter based: 1.32^3 * 115 kg = 265 kg
 
Now with his body length I can apply some estimates from data of other male tigers.

Based on the STP males, isometrically scaling his 210 cm frame based on the average of 7 males of the study (avg. body length = 196 cm, avg. mass = 182 kg), he would weigh 224 kg. An issue with using the STP males is that the wild Amur seems have lost a lot of the robusticity found in captive Amurs and the rest of the tiger subspecies. In other words, STP males are very lanky compared to their captive Amur cousins, and the Duisburg male would likely be more like other captives Amurs rather than the wild STP males. The Duisburg male is also taller proportionately than the STP males.

To account for height in the equation, I used the following data. 6 STP males averaged 94 cm at the shoulder and weighed 184 kg. Isometrically estimating Mr. Duisburg from these numbers and his 110 cm height results in a mass of 295 kg. This somewhat accounts for the underestimation by the body length estimate. Combining both body length and height estimates gives a mass of 260 kg. Coincidentally on par with the estimate based on the female by his side. 

Based on some captive Amurs, the mass values are bit higher. Looking off the table @GuateGojira provided in the Amur tiger thread and the three males of Christiansen, I came up with a average body length and weight for captive Amurs where were as follows:

n = 6
Body length = 195 cm
Mass = 223 kg


Isometrically scaling the Duisburg male from these figures results in a mass of about 280 kg.

Had he had Bengal tiger proportions, he would likely be heavier and significantly so at 280-320 kg. Comparing him to Sauraha for example, shows a body length with the potential to harbor a 320 kg cat. The problems I see with using Bengal tigers for comparisons is that the Duisburg male for one, does not seem as bulky as Bengal tigers and the fact that he still is an Amur in the end, and would likely keep to their somewhat leaner built. 

I have to revisit the photos, however. In the latter two photos the Duisburg males look bulkier than the first photo. Measuring the chest diameter/body length ratio, he is at least 5% less bulky in the photo with the female than in the photos he was alone. Bulking him up in the photo analysis and comparing him with the female gives a chest diameter mass of 306 kg. Averaging this value with his presumably constant body length then gives an average mass of 283 kg.

All in all, isometry based on Amurs gave me a mass range of 260-280 kg for the the Duisburg male.

(I tried a new method of creating clear subtopics without needing subheading by bolding the first few words of the new subtopic. I hope it made the read easier.)
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United States Pckts Offline
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#19

I just recently found out the largest male in Pench isn't BMW male but actually the Raiyakkassa Male

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author
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United States Polar Offline
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#20

@Pckts,

I agree. BMW male seems a little sleeker and the Raiyakkassa male seems a little more robust and slightly taller.

And @SVTIGRIS,

The picture of KTZ-083, till this day, is the picture of most likely the largest modern wild Bengal Tiger that I have ever seen. From that picture, I estimate him to be 290-310 kg (I suck at big cat estimations.)
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#21

@Polar I think kzt-110 and maybe 024 were bigger than him, there are some calculations for the size of 110 but I forgot the verdict. Overall though Kazi's are the biggest cats on earth without question. It would be a dream if a project was taken out to capture, measure, and weigh these animals.
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Roflcopters Offline
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#22
( This post was last modified: 06-02-2016, 01:07 AM by Roflcopters )


*This image is copyright of its original author


the biggest male tiger I have ever seen outside of Assam (this Northern Bengal is from Rajaji's chilla range) even from a far distance. this male looks enormous. giant head, tall, long, unreal shoulders and bulk is obvious to the naked eye. hes got every department covered to settle in as a record breaking specimen.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#23

(06-02-2016, 12:25 AM)SVTIGRIS Wrote: @Polar I think kzt-110 and maybe 024 were bigger than him, there are some calculations for the size of 110 but I forgot the verdict. Overall though Kazi's are the biggest cats on earth without question. It would be a dream if a project was taken out to capture, measure, and weigh these animals.
I'd say that N. India tigers would be larger than Kazi tigers, you can see the posts by peter on N. India tiger size as well as assam and you can see that assam has some large tigers, yes, but not larger than Nepal from what I saw. If we could ever find any info on Kaziranga Tigers specifically that could shed some light on the topic but at the moment, the largest tigers measured came from Nepal so that is where I have to assume the largest big cats alive today live.
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#24

@Pckts yea that would probably be the logical conclusion to make. But from images we have a man can dream!
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#25

@Roflcopters that's one of the longest tigers proportionally I've ever seen! Is there any more info at all on the male, or do we only have this image?
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Roflcopters Offline
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#26

I got it off Prerna Bindra's blog and originally, she obtained it from Wildlife Insititute of India.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#27

(06-02-2016, 07:50 AM)SVTIGRIS Wrote: @Pckts yea that would probably be the logical conclusion to make. But from images we have a man can dream!

I can absolutely appreciate that and you won't find me arguing against you on that point. Images of Kazi males never disappoint, I just wish we could see them in close proximity the way we can see tigers from other locations.
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#28

Alright I've found the calculations of 110's weight and here goes:

It all starts with Madla. He was weighed in at 250kgs. Is it correct? NO. Many people who knew him say he was definitely 300-325kgs. Yes that is true.
The famous Nepal male tiger Sauhara Male weighed by Dr.Mel Sunquist 261-272kgs on "an empty stomach." He was 310cms in total length (10"2'). His tail alone measured 113cms, his head body length from tip of nose to the base of tail was around 197cms. Here is a look at how madla appears infront of sauhara male tiger, he definitely appears to be 20cms longer than Sauhara male tiger. So, a head body length no less than 7 feet.

Even considering Dr.Raghu Chundawat to be around 5 1/2 feet or slightly more, he is definitely 1 1/2 longer than Dr.Raghu Chundawat. So, 7feet head body length is the truth, meaning he has 20cms over Sauhara and seemingly taller than him too.
 Now, coming to the body size or heaviness. He has uniformly plain larger body from the chest to abdominal regions just as Sauhara male. So, only the chest girth, neck girths matter.
Sauhara male tiger had 80cms neck girth, 140cms chest girth, where as Madla had 90cms neck girth and 160cms chest girth. 20cms extra chest girth and 10cms neck girth difference definitely adds around 50-70kgs in case of tigers. So, Madla is (261/272kgs+50-70kgs). So, madla seems to be around 310-330kgs. Let us assume 300-320kgs.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Then we compare Malda with 110. This giant tiger tag named KZT 110 is considered by many experts to be the largest Bengal tiger ever captured in camera till date. Longer, taller, robust, heavy and compact body with tightly packed muscles, massive forearms, deeper and massive chest girth makes this tiger some of the most massive wild tigers ever. It definitely appears to have 5-15cms chest girth(i.e. 180-195cms) over this massive tiger. 
How big he can be? What could be the difference between Madla and that KZT 110? Here is another picture of Madla and KZT 110,
Appears to be easily around 60kgs(minimum) or more difference. This tiger would have definitely been a record breaker if he was weighed at that time.


*This image is copyright of its original author


So to do the math, 320+60=380kg. There we have 110's weight.

Obviously this is not all accurate but from what we have that is the conclusion that can be made.

This is not my personal verdict, just from what I read.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#29

Way too many variables come into play. 
-camera angle
-camera distance
-different camera trap photos
-estimations 
Etc.
But either way, still fun to guess, tfs
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#30

Yea it was all speculative really and alot of things have to be right to accurately predict, but for now it's the most we've got and it's not too implausable.
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