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Freak Specimens
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If a wild lion attained the weight of 272 & 313kg, in captivity 375kg(he was captured in the serenget at 6months of age) and 366kg(weighed at only 4 years old, however male lions continue growing till 7) why couldn't that lion grow to 408kg? [img]images/smilies/undecided.gif[/img] There is a lot of questioning even of 600-800 lb lions. I'm very unsure why there is so many doubts, however when the same exact thing is posted but with a tiger, it is not questioned. No one questioned the 250kg wild amur tiger, till guate got info it was closer to 200kg. However until he did find out the weight everyone already had accepted it, but if a lion of 230kg or even 200kg at all is posted with reliable evidence it is shunned.
I would really appreciate it, when someone brings forth proof similaur to what the other side is bringing, there is a mutual respect. I really enjoy this forum however, I will stop posting here an delete my account if some of these minor bias things don't stop. Its frustrating, every post you guys make I don't reply back for proof and when you post it I don't say its false, the same should be done for me. [img]images/smilies/confused.gif[/img] Zookeepers and trainers don't adjust stomach content when they weigh their big cats either, I would assume. So a lot of these 800lb animals could be closer to 700lb and so on and so forth. Lions may not attain largest sizes as often as tigers, but to think a lion cannot attain weights such as other tigers is purely bias. I believe African lions and Bengal tigers in zoos to be around the same weight in captivity(largest animals) while the Siberian tiger is much bigger, however some healthy and fit can be small 350-400 lbs. Not all big lions are obese either, same goes for other tigers. Depending on their enclosures and inrichement they can maintain their muscle mass and look half way decent, even at large weights. This is a pretty tall well built male https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trvPZBkTg4g  (06-11-2014, 08:48 PM)'TheLioness' Wrote: If a wild lion attained the weight of 272 & 313kg, in captivity 375kg(he was captured in the serenget at 6months of age) and 366kg(weighed at only 4 years old, however male lions continue growing till 7) why couldn't that lion grow to 408kg? [img]images/smilies/undecided.gif[/img] There is a lot of questioning even of 600-800 lb lions. I'm very unsure why there is so many doubts, however when the same exact thing is posted but with a tiger, it is not questioned. No one questioned the 250kg wild amur tiger, till guate got info it was closer to 200kg. However until he did find out the weight everyone already had accepted it, but if a lion of 230kg or even 200kg at all is posted with reliable evidence it is shunned. I am not questioning the possibility of the 900 pounds non-obese lion in the captivity, but we just require the specimen to be measured and verified like they did to Baikal. 
Logic, not heart:
This topic is full of great animals, most of them real giants among the cats. However, I don't want to be a dream-killer here, but we most accept that most of the weights presented here, of both lions and tigers, are plain guesses, and for comparison, useless. The heaviest lion ever was of 375 kg (826 lb), and was a captive specimen; the heaviest tiger ever was of 423 kg (932 lb), and was a captive one too. These animals were actually weighed, not just estimated. However, when we take a look to all those weights of 700, 800 and 900 lb, all are just estimations based in the size of the animals. Besides, despite what we believe, weighing an animals of that size is very difficult, and not all the parks have the possibility to do so. I remember the case of the tiger Shere Khan (Amur-Bengal mix), which was estimated to weight up to 800 lb, but at the end, he weighed about 700 lb (he bottomed the scale, but the keepers estimated that he probably was some 20 pounds more). So, I recommend to use logic and accuracy here. If we don't have a direct confirmation of a weight, or at least a published figure in a scientific paper, then we most take that weights like a grain of salt, independently if they came from a lion, a tiger or a 500 lb jaguar! A personal point here, when I began my investigation about captive Amur tigers, I found that the heaviest male, actually weighed and from reliable sources, was the giant of 306 kg vouched by Mazák. The second one was a male of 277 kg and the third of 273 kg. I found a record of a male of 320 kg, pure blood specimen from the Johannesburg Zoo, but sadly, I has been not able to confirm the figure with them. KingTheropod found higher figures latter, but this show that if we use only reliable and officially recorded weights, records of 800 and 900 lb seems to be simple nonexistent.  (06-11-2014, 09:18 PM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Logic, not heart: Bingo! Lioness, tbh you say "bias" yet we are asking for actual proof, whether lion or tiger. You posting a picture claiming "900lb lion" and me questioning the weight means this forum is bias? (06-11-2014, 09:18 PM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Logic, not heart: Jaipur once has topped 1025 pounds, but then they put him on a diet to lose weight down to 932 pounds. 
Harbin Monster
 *This image is copyright of its original author Look at the head of the tiger below  *This image is copyright of its original author
No pckts, I understand you want actual proof. The forum itself isn't bias, there are just a few things that some people say is wrong then turn around and do what they said was wrong.
Like the lioness of 500 lbs. that bigcat rescue stated weighed around 500 lbs. while you conclude it is not accepted because it says around and yet you post a email of a tigress where it is said "female siberian tigers weights around 500lbs" and yours is correct however mine is not correct. You claim yours has to be accepted because the people there put the animals in the studbook, however bigcat rescue does infact weigh their animals, normally if they are take to the vet, which most are considering what conditons they come to them in and they must check on them and make sure they are gaining correct weights and are healthy. I'm just saying that you yourself can do what I'm doing without question, however when I do it, I have to have a lot more sources or proof, this is what I'm understanding from you replies. I've looked into weights that I've posted, I've found some helpful weights for guate on siberian tigers, I try to be thorough in what I post so I am respected and not looked apon as a bias member. The 900lb lion is at the vet in the picture, they could have weighed him, most people note this animal weighs around 900lbs. when they are unsure or estimating, however it is believeable when they blunty tell you the weight of the animal. I'm sorry that wasn't enough evidence, it is rather old and wouldn't know how to get in contact to get the correct answer. I hope we both can work together on finding the actual evidence of such things on both sides. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Thanks for the reply Guate, I know a lot of these weights are guessing because it is hard to weigh such heavy animals. How do you go on finding out the truth behind the first evidence(I.E. internet artical) mainly emailing the establishment?
You are misquoting what the tigress email said, again. It says "about" and it also says we have stud books, past history, etc.. from the email and a name attached to it. This place also has weighed baikal, a guiness accepted weight, and are using these two to breed. Obviously they weigh their cats.
Now compare that to a Facebook response where it says "around" which to me, means they have no idea the weight and that is a guess. Who runs their social media campaign? What qualifications do they have in regards to big cat weights? What is their name? I also believe you specifically asked them, and have still not gotten a answer, am I right? I can show you a youtube comment from where zuri(tigress) and cameron (lion) are stated from the actual sanctuary of being the same size. You can look at them and see that is not the case, but should we take them as the same because it is stated by a unknown person on a youtube chanel? I hope you recognize the difference.
TheLioness and Pckts:
It is true that many zoos and private facilities are able to weigh them animals, however, how we can know if the presented weights are indeed reliable, nor if they are actually true? I thought that you will get the point with my last post, about reliability, but it seems that the central point of it was partially avoided. Remember the case of Shere Khan, and many other great cats in captivity. One hard-core-lion-fan once published a large list of lions that apparently weighted “over 900 lb”, but ALL of them were fake. The same can by say by some other tigers lists too. I think that the approach of KingTheropod must be your example. He personally wrote to the facilities and they confirmed to him the figures. As far I remember, the only tiger that surpassed 700 lb was Baikal, all the others are much less than this figure, those pure blood at least. Finally, about the lioness and tigress of 500 lb, I must be sincere with you, I can’t believe those figures, in both cases. At least that these two ladies were extremely fat, they can’t be real (or normal, at least). I propose you something, why you don’t write to the facilities for confirmation of the figures? Look the facts by yourself and I promise you that the result will be amazing. [img]images/smilies/wink.gif[/img] (06-12-2014, 09:28 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: TheLioness and Pckts:
Does anyone know the longest canine for the captive lion measured from the gumline in the straight line?
 (06-11-2014, 09:49 PM)'Apollo' Wrote: Harbin Monster Big specimen on top of the car. Saw this pic several times but just now I noticed that the specimen on the car has no balls! So either some big males in harbin are a result of castration or this big specimen is a female, right? (06-14-2014, 06:40 PM)'Wanderfalke' Wrote:(06-11-2014, 09:49 PM)'Apollo' Wrote: Look at the head of the tiger below I dont think male tigers in Harbin are castrated because behind the scenes some of these tigers are used for tiger parts trade. So they need to breed more tigers. IMO the tiger in the top is a female, she looks to be a big size female but not as big as some of the males. The tiger in the bottom is a big and tall male. (06-14-2014, 06:40 PM)'Wanderfalke' Wrote:(06-11-2014, 09:49 PM)'Apollo' Wrote: Harbin Monster It is a breeding center, there is no castrated specimen. However, some employees there sometimes will illegally use the body parts of the dead tigers for trade.  *This image is copyright of its original author Huge canines  *This image is copyright of its original author |
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