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Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities and Differences between Felids

United States tigerluver Offline
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#31
( This post was last modified: 06-14-2017, 11:23 AM by tigerluver )

@Ngala , that is a very interesting and well thought hypothesis. Perhaps it could have some role. Have you read of this study on human nares? For humans, they came to this conclusion: "The positive slopes indicate that individuals from warm-humid climates, on average, tend to have wider nares whereas individuals from cool-dry climates tend to have narrower nares." The explanation was "Inhaled air reaches 90% of the required temperature and humidity levels before even reaching the nasopharynx, implicating the nasal cavity, especially the turbinates, as the major conditioning apparatus in the respiratory tract [4,5]. We also know that the geometry of the nasal airways influences the velocity of inspired air [4,7,45]. Narrow airways in cold-dry climates might allow better conditioning by increasing the turbulence in inspired air as it reaches the turbinates, thereby facilitating contact with the nasal mucosa [5]. However, we note that nostril area does not show unusually high differentiation across populations, which suggests that it is not the size of the nostrils but the shape that might be functionally important."

This pattern may hold up in cats to some degree, as some of the smaller cooler area cats have smaller nares. We'd need to find the localities of all individuals due to the broad range of some these very adaptable species.
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Italy Ngala Offline
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#32

Thank you @tigerluver for reporting this study. On the humans, seems that a major nasal aperture is related to an high level of humidity and a warm climate, so a minor nasal aperture is related to a cold climate.

If we apply on the big cats this study on humans, Snow Leopard should have a small nasal aperture, and Jaguars probably the major nasal aperture.

So the hypothesis of minor nasal aperture of Jaguars related to an high level of humidity would be excluded.

Your theory on the method of predation might be the most valid explanation.
"Man still bears in his bodily frame the indelible stamp of his lowly origin." C. Darwin
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Netherlands peter Offline
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#33

PC

You saw both cats in Africa and India. You also saw their captive relatives. Here's some questions:

01 - Wild vs captive. In what way do wild big cats differ from their captive relatives? In what way are they similar?
02 - Did you notice differences between lions and tigers in this respect (the difference between captive and wild animals)?
03 - Built. In what way are wild tigers different from their captive relatives? And lions?
04 - Are the differences discussed in 1-3 similar in males and females? 
05 - Psychology. What would you consider as typical for wild male lions and wild male tigers? Do they differ in this respect from their captive relatives?
06 - Same for females.
07 - Impression. What do you remember most about both species? What did you feel when you saw them?
08 - Others. You heard anything from your guides or others you consider remarkable?
09 - Books. What description in what book would come close to what you saw?
10 - Comparing cats. In which respects do wild lions and wild tigers compare? What are the main differences?
11 - Posters. You know about forums, posters and debates about big cats. What would you tell them first?
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United States Pckts Offline
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#34
( This post was last modified: 06-16-2017, 01:15 AM by Pckts )

@peter

Questions 1, 2 & 3


 I have only seen a few captive lions and tigers and to be honest, I find it very difficult to compare them to their wild counterparts. Wild cats have individual characteristics that are raw, they are primal, they have a much harder look in their eyes, scars on their face and body and are much more active. The captive cats I have seen either seem to be lazy, stressed or completely out of it.
Physical differences are easier to describe,
Captive lions are probably heavier than the wild ones I saw but they certainly aren't stronger. Captive lions I have seen usually seem more robust but also have more fat, wild lions are lean, strong and powerful. It's hard to describe but when you see a wild lion, it's body looks beaten but from this beating it's gained strength, a captive lion looks soft, unchallenged and weak in comparison.
It's the opposite for the captive tigers I have seen, Tigers seem seem much less dense in captivity and have more of a lanky look to them while in the wild Tigers are stocky, dense and strong. Their bodies are packed with muscle, their heads seem much more powerful and they seem lower to the ground, probably because they are more muscle packed. Tigers like lions have the same characteristics, wild individuals just look beaten and strong. Their forelimbs seem so strong, there is just something that happens to the body when you spend your entire life grappling and killing things, ripping into tough hides and eating highly nutritious prey compared to being fed slabs of meat.

Question 4 and 6

Females in the wild compared to captivity are as different as the males, they have a bit more elegance to their body but still powerful, especially in Tigers, I was more impressed by the tigress I saw than the males of either species because I was expecting the males to be powerful, but I didn't realize how powerful females could be. But with the females it's the attitude, females scare me, they look at you like food or a threat, males don't care about you, females definitely gave me the chills once or twice. Whether it was the durga female at Pench constantly snarling, lunging or never being settled or the Serengeti females walking in front of the jeep then purposely walking next to it and making eye contact as they walked past, they just seem more unpredictable.


Question 5

Male lions don't care about you, you're nothing to them, they don't look at you, they don't want to waste their time on you.
The Male tiger I got to spend time with was the same way, he was too busy roaring for his female to pay any attention to us, he was focused on the task at hand. The other Tadoba male I saw came out of the forest, walked in front of the jeeps then off to the other side of the road and he was gone. I really feel like either cat looks at us as a fly pestering them, not worth their time unless they get really annoyed. 

Captive cats of either species don't have the confidence, aura or power you feel when seeing their wild counterparts. Maybe it's my own doing, but seeing animals that live by the sword and die by it is so cool. It's raw, honest and beautiful. Seeing a cat behind bars takes away the magic, seeing a cat in nature, surrounded by it's natural habitat as far as the eye can see is what it's all about IMO. 


Question 7

"Controlled Aggression"

Seeing a male Lion in the wild is primal, you watch so many documentaries on them growing up and you know what they are capable of, then you see them and you finally can truly imagine what ferocity they posses. Their faces tell the tale, their eyes pierce your soul and they remind you of a time long lost.


Seeing a male Tiger in the wild is haunting, you have to search high and low, listen to calls, look for pug marks and most of the time it turns into empty promises then finally it happens, this striped beast emerges out of no where and he is beautiful and powerful at the same time. His head hangs low while his eyes look up, he is like a ghost. It's hard to believe that this massive beast actually lives there, but he does and he is king. You are lucky to even share a second with him and you should thank your lucky stars that you did.

Question 8

Yes and No

Talking to guides is much like being on a forum, each guide has their own opinion and stories, each has their favorites. What I learned from guides more than anything else is tracking, they are so in tune with the surroundings, their eyes, ears and noses are far better than ours. They have trained them their entire life, they almost become super human. Having them with you is so much fun, if you pay attention you can really learn a lot about tracking. 

Question 9

This is hard for me, I've read so many that they start to run together, most of the stories I remember seem to sensationalize these cats and that's not the cats I got to know. I never got to see them hunt or fight, I only got to see them doing their day to day operations.

Question 10

Male Lions seem taller and leaner while Male Tigers seem shorter and thicker.
Body length is hard to tell with the naked eye, but Tigers do seem a bit longer but no by much.
Body weight is impossible to tell, they carry their weight very differently, and both are massive in their own ways.


Females are similar in body dimensions but again I think Tigress are a little longer but female tigers definitely seem more powerful. Both my girlfriend and I noticed this, seeing the Link 8 female may have jaded me, but I kid you not, she is a massive Tigress and after seeing her, I have a hard time being fair to lioness'. Overall they are both very close in size and weight I'd bet.

Personalities are very different,
Lions are much more care free, they like to lounge and relax, tigers are on edge, they are always moving and active, even while sitting in a pool, their eyes are always scanning.


Question 11

Get out there and see the places where your favorite animals live, you'll learn more than you can ever learn behind a screen.


There is no rule...
Tigers are not larger than lions and lions are not larger than tigers....
Every species has a huge range, you see these animals and they come in all shapes and sizes.
When you see a Tiger or Lion in person you realize that no one can actually know what they weigh, how long or tall they are, nor does it matter. Just enjoy them for what they are, the last remnant of truly wild beasts!
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Switzerland Spalea Online
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#35

@Pckts :

About #34: I truly share your fascination towards lions and tigers, and you express it in a so fascinating way that... Bravo !

I saw only some lions in wild (Kenya) but frankly, you compare captive lions with lions in wild as you compare a drawing of a beginner with a drawing of the Renaissance Grand Master like Michelangelo or Raphael. The former is a clumsy draft of the latter. Same case, of course as concerns the tigers. Wild lions and tigers have the density of their being whereas the captive big cats have only the pretty appearance.

Life in wild is short, rough and intense. Life in wild breeds the knowledge of the hunting ground, and thus the intelligence of the hunt. Same thing as concerns the knowledge of the preys. The awakening is extreme, the senses are applied at the most. In wild they become perfect sharp athletes. And starting to physically decline they are quickly dethroned and replaced.

Lyric I am ! I say that clumsily, but sincerely.
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Netherlands peter Offline
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#36
( This post was last modified: 06-16-2017, 06:56 AM by peter )

PC

Very interesting answers that have both details and a lot of overview. Excellent in all departments. Could have been written by a seasoned wild cat specialist or writer. Someone who knows about the essence of wild animals. Many thanks on behalf of all.

You considered visiting the Russian Far East? Beautiful region that can't be compared to anything else. The Russians are doing really well in many respects. Primorye is one of the few regions where the natural world can be admired in full glory. I see more and more adds that seem very interesting.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#37

@peter 
That's something I've began to think about but for my next trip I have 3 options in mind...

Uganda to check out Silverbacks


Australia to Cage dive with GWS

Bolivia to go see Jaguars
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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Norway Pantherinae Offline
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#38

(06-18-2017, 01:11 AM)Pckts Wrote: @peter 
That's something I've began to think about but for my next trip I have 3 options in mind...

Uganda to check out Silverbacks


Australia to Cage dive with GWS

Bolivia to go see Jaguars

Maybe the Pantanal? I hear the sightings of jaguars there are becoming so frequent... I had my hart set on Kanha, but I really want to go to the Pantanal or Sabi Sands!
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United States Pckts Offline
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#39

(06-21-2017, 12:31 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:
(06-18-2017, 01:11 AM)Pckts Wrote: @peter 
That's something I've began to think about but for my next trip I have 3 options in mind...

Uganda to check out Silverbacks


Australia to Cage dive with GWS

Bolivia to go see Jaguars

Maybe the Pantanal? I hear the sightings of jaguars there are becoming so frequent... I had my hart set on Kanha, but I really want to go to the Pantanal or Sabi Sands!
I'd love the to go to the pantanal as well, but I have a mutual friend who runs tours through bolivia so I may be able to get a better rate going there.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
-Oscar Wilde
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United Kingdom SVTIGRIS Offline
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#40

One thing I'm set on is going to Yala, to see large majestic leopards in their absolute domain would be an immense experience. Hopefully through loose contacts I have can find my way there.
"When the tiger stalks the jungle like the lowering clouds of a thunderstorm, the leopard moves as silently as mist drifting on a dawn wind." -Indian proverb
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United States Polar Offline
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#41

(06-18-2017, 01:11 AM)Pckts Wrote: @peter 
That's something I've began to think about but for my next trip I have 3 options in mind...

Uganda to check out Silverbacks


Australia to Cage dive with GWS

Bolivia to go see Jaguars

Nice! I'd like to definitely go to Brazil to see some capybaras, pumas, and jaguars. Gorillas and great white shark are awesome suggestions too!

My next few wildlife trips:

- Visit the Arctic for a 3rd time (after university).

- Hike the entire Appalachian trail over a month.

- Yellowstone.

I don't have any other trips for now, I'll think of some when I acquire more money after uni and plan some international wildlife trips.
"Polar bears are the world's largest extant mammalian predator. Despite their size, they are capable of feats none can compare to, including but not limited to: dragging a three-ton walrus with only its jaws."

- Polar, January 2017
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India Rishi Online
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#42
( This post was last modified: 07-09-2017, 08:50 PM by Rishi )

I haven't been able to post in a while. So, let's get the thread back on track...here are the calls-sounds of 7 biggest cats.

Tiger.




Lion.




Jaguar.




Leopard.




Mountain Lion.




Cheetah.




Clouded Leopard.



In the wild, expect the unexpected, as we humans haven't really much clue of what to expect.
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United Kingdom SVTIGRIS Offline
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#43
( This post was last modified: 07-09-2017, 09:31 PM by SVTIGRIS )

I have to say a cougar's vocal display is chilling, almost blood curdling. Hearing that in pitch black must be horrifying.

On tiger roars I've heard they can actually paralyze their opposition with a roar, as a short clip on discovery inquired into. Sunquist featured too and gave his own anecdote on the kaziranga attack (which I didn't know he was prevously involved in) in which he said the roar was penetrating, paralyzing. 

A bio-acoustician came on, the main person who deeply researched this paralysis theory, more on the infra-sound aspect of the tiger. She said there is an immobilising and confusing affect that this can have on one.

Here is the video:





Funnily enough posted by king p.tigris
"When the tiger stalks the jungle like the lowering clouds of a thunderstorm, the leopard moves as silently as mist drifting on a dawn wind." -Indian proverb
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India Rishi Online
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#44
( This post was last modified: 07-10-2017, 07:13 AM by Rishi )

(07-09-2017, 09:30 PM)SVTIGRIS Wrote: I have to say a cougar's vocal display is chilling, almost blood curdling. Hearing that in pitch black must be horrifying.

On tiger roars I've heard they can actually paralyze their opposition with a roar, as a short clip on discovery inquired into. Sunquist featured too and gave his own anecdote on the kaziranga attack (which I didn't know he was prevously involved in) in which he said the roar was penetrating, paralyzing.

Seems so... shocked 





I've read about tiger or lions' blood-curdling roar thundering from a distance in literary works..But i didn't know of this effect.
In the wild, expect the unexpected, as we humans haven't really much clue of what to expect.
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