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Comparing Cats: A Discussion of Similarities & Differences

United Kingdom Spalea Offline
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#61

@Pckts :

About #34: I truly share your fascination towards lions and tigers, and you express it in a so fascinating way that... Bravo !

I saw only some lions in wild (Kenya) but frankly, you compare captive lions with lions in wild as you compare a drawing of a beginner with a drawing of the Renaissance Grand Master like Michelangelo or Raphael. The former is a clumsy draft of the latter. Same case, of course as concerns the tigers. Wild lions and tigers have the density of their being whereas the captive big cats have only the pretty appearance.

Life in wild is short, rough and intense. Life in wild breeds the knowledge of the hunting ground, and thus the intelligence of the hunt. Same thing as concerns the knowledge of the preys. The awakening is extreme, the senses are applied at the most. In wild they become perfect sharp athletes. And starting to physically decline they are quickly dethroned and replaced.

Lyric I am ! I say that clumsily, but sincerely.
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peter Offline
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#62
( This post was last modified: 06-16-2017, 06:56 AM by peter )

PC

Very interesting answers that have both details and a lot of overview. Excellent in all departments. Could have been written by a seasoned wild cat specialist or writer. Someone who knows about the essence of wild animals. Many thanks on behalf of all.

You considered visiting the Russian Far East? Beautiful region that can't be compared to anything else. The Russians are doing really well in many respects. Primorye is one of the few regions where the natural world can be admired in full glory. I see more and more adds that seem very interesting.
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United States Pckts Offline
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#63
( This post was last modified: 01-17-2018, 09:55 PM by Pckts )

@peter 
That's something I've begun to think about but for my next trip I have 3 options in mind...

Uganda to check out Silverbacks


Australia to Cage dive with GWS

Bolivia to go see Jaguars
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Pantherinae Offline
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#64

(06-18-2017, 01:11 AM)Pckts Wrote: @peter 
That's something I've began to think about but for my next trip I have 3 options in mind...

Uganda to check out Silverbacks


Australia to Cage dive with GWS

Bolivia to go see Jaguars

Maybe the Pantanal? I hear the sightings of jaguars there are becoming so frequent... I had my hart set on Kanha, but I really want to go to the Pantanal or Sabi Sands!
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United States Pckts Offline
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#65

(06-21-2017, 12:31 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:
(06-18-2017, 01:11 AM)Pckts Wrote: @peter 
That's something I've began to think about but for my next trip I have 3 options in mind...

Uganda to check out Silverbacks


Australia to Cage dive with GWS

Bolivia to go see Jaguars

Maybe the Pantanal? I hear the sightings of jaguars there are becoming so frequent... I had my hart set on Kanha, but I really want to go to the Pantanal or Sabi Sands!
I'd love the to go to the pantanal as well, but I have a mutual friend who runs tours through bolivia so I may be able to get a better rate going there.
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#66

One thing I'm set on is going to Yala, to see large majestic leopards in their absolute domain would be an immense experience. Hopefully through loose contacts I have can find my way there.
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United States Polar Offline
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#67

(06-18-2017, 01:11 AM)Pckts Wrote: @peter 
That's something I've began to think about but for my next trip I have 3 options in mind...

Uganda to check out Silverbacks


Australia to Cage dive with GWS

Bolivia to go see Jaguars

Nice! I'd like to definitely go to Brazil to see some capybaras, pumas, and jaguars. Gorillas and great white shark are awesome suggestions too!

My next few wildlife trips:

- Visit the Arctic for a 3rd time (after university).

- Hike the entire Appalachian trail over a month.

- Yellowstone.

I don't have any other trips for now, I'll think of some when I acquire more money after uni and plan some international wildlife trips.
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Rishi Offline
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#68
( This post was last modified: 07-09-2017, 08:50 PM by Rishi )

I haven't been able to post in a while. So, let's get the thread back on track...here are the calls-sounds of 7 biggest cats.

Tiger.




Lion.




Jaguar.




Leopard.




Mountain Lion.




Cheetah.




Clouded Leopard.



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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#69
( This post was last modified: 07-09-2017, 09:31 PM by Sully )

I have to say a cougar's vocal display is chilling, almost blood curdling. Hearing that in pitch black must be horrifying.

On tiger roars I've heard they can actually paralyze their opposition with a roar, as a short clip on discovery inquired into. Sunquist featured too and gave his own anecdote on the kaziranga attack (which I didn't know he was prevously involved in) in which he said the roar was penetrating, paralyzing. 

A bio-acoustician came on, the main person who deeply researched this paralysis theory, more on the infra-sound aspect of the tiger. She said there is an immobilising and confusing affect that this can have on one.

Here is the video:





Funnily enough posted by king p.tigris
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Rishi Offline
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#70
( This post was last modified: 07-10-2017, 07:13 AM by Rishi )

(07-09-2017, 09:30 PM)SVTIGRIS Wrote: I have to say a cougar's vocal display is chilling, almost blood curdling. Hearing that in pitch black must be horrifying.

On tiger roars I've heard they can actually paralyze their opposition with a roar, as a short clip on discovery inquired into. Sunquist featured too and gave his own anecdote on the kaziranga attack (which I didn't know he was prevously involved in) in which he said the roar was penetrating, paralyzing.

Seems so... shocked 





I've read about tiger or lions' blood-curdling roar thundering from a distance in literary works..But i didn't know of this effect.
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United Kingdom Sully Offline
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#71

I am quite interested on how skull dimensions differ between sub Saharan leopards and leopards in more tropical climates. This is because jaguar skulls and tiger skulls are more robust than lion skulls, probably due to the denser climate they reside in and the need for a more clinical bite. So I wonder if leopards share this difference between subspecies. Just putting this out there if anyone else wants to contribute as I go looking for data to try and satiate my question.
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Canada HyperNova Offline
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#72
( This post was last modified: 10-04-2017, 05:11 AM by HyperNova )

Cranial morphologie of cheetah, jaguar, leopard, cougar and snow leopard. Note : no distinction was made between male and female in this study.

''Cheetah (Acinonyx jubatus). Cheetah skulls in pro- file are the most domed and least elongated of the five species studied (Fig. 6). Skulls can be described as round and shortened with a broadened forehead. The highest point of the skull is above the eyes and the braincase slopes down from this point. Cheetahs have the most extreme development of frontal breadth (Sall- es, 1992). The infraorbital canal is small compared to similarly-sized skulls of snow leopard and puma (Fig. 7) (Ewer, 1973). The canines are reduced in size, slen- der, and hook backwards (Hillson, 1990). Canine grooves are absent in most skulls but faint in some. The cheetah’s nasal profile is straight to slightly concave (toward tip of nasals). The auditory bullae of the chee- tah can be described as small and compact, but tall in profile with both entotympanic and ectotympanic cham- bers inflated. The separation line between the two cham- bers is visible. The styliform process of the entotym- panic is a distinctive projection which extends anterior- ly (toward the nasal cavity) at least one centimeter (approximately half the length of the bulla itself).''

*This image is copyright of its original author

''Jaguar (Panthera onca). Jaguars have the largest skulls of the five species studied here. Although skull lengths overlap with larger pantherines (e.g., tiger and lion), jaguars lack key diagnostic features found in the two biggest cats (i.e., more laterally-flattened canines and robust cheek-teeth). Jaguar skulls are robust, rela- tively short with a broadened rostrum and wide zygo- matic arches (Fig. 8). Their robust conical canines were described as functionally significant in their prey choic- es, which include armored reptiles (Emmons, 1987). The canines rarely have prominent grooves present, but when present they are often weak or shortened along their length. Like leopards, they have a prominent ca- nine root structure that swells toward the nasal bones (see Fig. 8A). The auditory bullae of jaguar are large, and the more prominent entotympanic is inflated. The styliform process of the entotympanic extends anterior- ly (as compared to puma) (Seymour, 1999: Figs. 2–4). The ectotympanic is not inflated (as compared to chee- tah and snow leopard) and forms well-developed flat- tened projections similar to leopard.''

*This image is copyright of its original author

''Leopard (Panthera pardus). The leopard skull can be described as slim and elongated (Fig. 9). Canines are elongate, slim and more laterally-flattened, often hav- ing paired parallel grooves on both lingual and labial sides of their upper and lower canines. Like jaguars, they also have a prominent canine root structure that is swollen and extends towards the nasal bones (see Fig. 9A). The entotympanic of the auditory bullae is large and inflated. The styliform process of the entotympanic does not significantly extend anteriorly (as in cheetah and jaguar). The ectotympanic is not inflated and forms flat projections similar to the jaguar.''

*This image is copyright of its original author

''Puma (Puma concolor). Skulls of the puma are short, rounded, and compact (Fig. 10). The sagittal crest is not as prominent as in other large felids, but can be well-developed in males (Young & Goldman, 1946). The presence of zygomatic struts was noticed along the medial surface of the temporal bone (facing the orbit) of the zygomatic arch, and was well-developed on most specimens (see Fig. 10F). These structural ridges are probably for muscle attachments for the large jaw mus- cles and may contribute to the limited backward-for- ward motion of the jaw (Young & Goldman, 1946). Seymour (1999) describes the bregmatic process on the skull of adult pumas as well developed, which was supported in skull comparisons of NFWFL specimens. The canines of pumas are short and conical with no canine grooves (faint in a few specimens). The auditory bulla of pumas is relatively large and the prominent entotympanic chamber is inflated. The styliform pro- cess of the entotympanic does not significantly extend anteriorly as in the jaguar (Fig. 8). The ectotympanic chamber is not inflated and does not have the devel- oped flat projections of the jaguar and leopard.''

*This image is copyright of its original author

''Snow leopard (Uncia uncia). The skull of the snow leopard is short and broad has been described as highly vaulted with a broadened forehead (Fig. 11) (Hemmer, 1972). This morphology supports an en- larged nasal cavity that is an adaptation to cold climates (Haltenorth, 1937, cited after Hemmer, 1972). The broad forehead differs from that of cheetah by the presence of an outer surface depression on the frontal bone, a unique feature for Uncia (Salles, 1992). The upper and lower canines are slender, more laterally- flattened and exhibit canine grooves, with most speci- mens having one or two on the labial and lingual surfac- es. Uncia differs from the other four species in bulla configuration. The auditory bulla is flatter (lower pro- file) in overall appearance than any of the other species discussed. This appearance is due to a less inflated entotympanic, and a more inflated ectotympanic. In fact, the ectotympanic approaches the size of the ento- tympanic. The styliform process of the entotympanic extends anteriorly, but is not prominent as in the cheetah.''

*This image is copyright of its original author

Comparison : 
''Several features allow for distinguishing among the five species based on skull morphology (Tab. 1). The prominence of canine grooves is an essential detail of felid canine structure and can be used as a distinguishing character among mid-sized cats (Young & Goldman, 1946; Salles, 1992). Leopards express this character in its most obvious form (Fig. 1). Snow leop- ards also have prominent canine grooves. Grooves are faint to absent in the jaguar, and if present, are reduced in number, length, and depth. Canine grooves are most- ly absent in the puma and cheetah, but can be faint in some specimens. Leopards and pumas have convex nasal profiles. The expression of this character among puma subspe- cies was described in Wilkins et al. (1997). Snow leopards and jaguars have concave nasal profiles. The compact skull of the cheetah has a nearly straight slop- ing nasal profile, which is concave anteriorly (Fig. 4). Side-to-side comparisons show the variation in size and shape of the auditory region (Fig. 5). Of the five species, jaguar, leopard, and puma have the largest auditory bullae, and the least inflated ectotympanic. Snow leopards and cheetahs have the most inflated ectotympanic, and the most clearly visible separation line between the two auditory chambers.''

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

Summary : 

*This image is copyright of its original author

Source : Cranial morphology of five felids: Acinonyx jubatus, Panthera onca, Panthera pardus, Puma concolor, Uncia uncia
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United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#73

In my opinion, the lion got the most pantherine skull than other pantherine members.

The tiger-snow leopard branch seems to be morphologically closer to the feline branch.
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United States paul cooper Offline
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#74

(09-19-2017, 04:06 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: In my opinion, the lion got the most pantherine skull than other pantherine members.

The tiger-snow leopard branch seems to be morphologically closer to the feline branch.
How did you come up with this conclusion? What makes a skull pantherine or 'more' pantherine?
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United States GrizzlyClaws Offline
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#75
( This post was last modified: 09-19-2017, 06:00 AM by GrizzlyClaws )

(09-19-2017, 04:20 AM)paul cooper Wrote: How did you come up with this conclusion? What makes a skull pantherine or 'more' pantherine?

The tiger's shorter facial structure gives me the impression that is an atypical pantherine with some feline morphological characteristics.

The typical facial structure for a pantherine should be proportionally longer like that of the lion.

In general, I think nobody would argue that a tiger possesses more morphological features of the house cat than a lion.
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