| Poll: In your opinion, how much maximum weight can a human lift during an adrenaline rush? This poll is closed. |
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| 800 pounds. | 1 | 25.00% | |
| 1000 pounds. | 0 | 0% | |
| 1200 pounds. | 1 | 25.00% | |
| 1700 pounds. | 1 | 25.00% | |
| One whopping ton (2000 pounds.) | 1 | 25.00% | |
| Total | 4 vote(s) | 100% | |
| * You voted for this item. | [Show Results] |
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Human Strength
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Arm wrestling is a completely different animal, a ton of technique is involved in it.
Olympic lifting is another different animal and technique and explosiveness is also utilized quite a bit, but brute strength is also more applicable there. Olympic lifters are also animals, they have huge squat, DL and OH press numbers and strongman are in the same boat, technique is extremely important there as well, but at the end of the day, watching some guy pick up a truck 15 times makes you realize that is a different kind of strength. But you are correct, there are 100s of different applications for strength, all have there place. But fake feats don't have any place when comparing... I'll end on this, I always like to simplify it though. How much weight can you pick up off the ground?  (07-14-2016, 12:51 AM)Pckts Wrote: Never could he match a world class power lifter, he couldn't match an amateur power lifter, Even though he is slow and uncoordinated, he could probably best most powerlifters/strongmen in an arm-wrestling contest and other "odd" displays of strength. Maybe he does not have to out-lift the world class powerlifters, yet just overpower them in the aforementioned things. About your second point, I have had an exceptional few step into my nearest Gold's Gym and best the majority of the certified powerlifters in arm-wrestling bouts and one (a 213-pound carpenter/farmer of 42-years) had actually beat Robert, the strongest powerlifter in the gym, at his 660-pound squat. The carpenter/farmer had an incredible 715-pound squat. Robert was shocked at this smaller man's strength/size ratio. The craziest part about all of this? Man stated that he never even lifted a gym weight, and hadn't even squatted an object near 715-pounds (aside from the occasional 400-pound, over-filled fertilizer compound bag.) The man rarely ever squatted the bags and usually would carry them great distances. So there are rare exceptions to your second point. Other than that, the discussion between I and Peter remains true most of the time.
What do you mean by "pick up off the ground"?
Do you mean by an inch? I don't know. Two inches? Still don't know. Deadlift? Yes, 630-pounds raw. (07-14-2016, 01:07 AM)Polar Wrote:(07-14-2016, 12:51 AM)Pckts Wrote: Never could he match a world class power lifter, he couldn't match an amateur power lifter, I certainly don't agree about Andre, he definitely couldn't best any world class power lifter in any of their events, maybe he wins an arm wrestling match, may be he doesn't but technique is more important there hence the videos showing small men beating massive ones. No offense, but I don't know who this "robert" is nor this farmer so I will take this account with a grain of salt. But I highly doubt this "farmer" could squat more than 3 times his own weight without any training. In fact, if this alleged man wanted to, he'd only need to add 100lbs to the claimed weight to reach a raw world record "198 804lb Amit Sapir Canada 04/16/16 APA" So unless you could present video or records of this alleged feat of strength, I'm certainly not going to accept or agree with it. Edit: One more thing to note is... What are they considering a "squat" Most gym goers don't squat correctly, they never go below parallel, essentially bending their knees at 30 to 40 degree angle and claim it as a good lift where in reality they need to go parallel at least, really below parallel for the lift to count. But even "hypothetically", lets say it's true. Your claim of this man squatting 400lb fertilizer bags would mean that he lifts every day and he lifts heavy so he certainly isn't an example of someone with no experience. In regards to your question about how far would qualify as "lifting" My answer is... It doesn't matter, an inch, foot or complete deadlift... You need to be able to lift it off the ground, and a guy that DL 1000lbs would certainly be able to lift more weight an inch off the ground and thus they'd still be able to lift more than anyone else.
I certainly don't agree about Andre, he definitely couldn't best any world class power lifter in any of their events, maybe he wins an arm wrestling match, may be he doesn't but technique is more important there hence the videos showing small men beating massive ones.
Alright, it depends on the individual and type of technique involved. I've seen the first arm wrestling video you showed, and that one is confirmed to be real. However, the smaller guy's arm that he is utilizing has some sort of genetic defect which grows his arm triple the size of the other arm (forgot name of condition), and hence greater force. Arm-wrestling not only involves an excessive use of technique, but an excessive use of brute force as well. The second video? I am not so sure, though. Is it at any official level? Olympic, national, state, or local? No offense, but I don't know who this "robert" is nor this farmer so I will take this account with a grain of salt. But I highly doubt this "farmer" could squat more than 3 times his own weight without any training. In fact, if this alleged man wanted to, he'd only need to add 100lbs to the claimed weight to reach a raw world record "198 804lb Amit Sapir Canada 04/16/16 APA" So unless you could present video or records of this alleged feat of strength, I'm certainly not going to accept or agree with it. I could care less if anyone believes it or not. No video, photographic, or reporter's proof for the event (people were just too shocked to pull out their phones, and it wasn't reported because the man wasn't well known to the locals), but I know what I saw and I do believe it. He squatted 715-pounds with proper form: tad bit lower than parallel, no "bouncing back up" or sudden jerks, no heel raises, no foot or ankle shifting, and no back bending. Just because someone "claims" to have the world record for a particular action (i.e Eddie/Benedikt for their deadlifts or Sapir for his pound-for-pound squat), doesn't mean that his world record stands. Again, as I stated earlier, someone an a relatively-unknown part of this planet could have a higher "world record" for that particular action (hate it when someone claims their lifts as "world record" when they haven't tested them against every human). There are the various "potentials" lost throughout the world. In fact, look up the Facebook pages "Metal Militia-Winchester, Virginia Chapter" and "Brute Strength Gym $ Crossfit Amalgym". Robert has the highest deadlift record in the city of Winchester (765-pounds raw @ 242-pound weight class), and he regularly supervises and works out at these two local gyms the most. But even "hypothetically", lets say it's true. Your claim of this man squatting 400lb fertilizer bags would mean that he lifts every day and he lifts heavy so he certainly isn't an example of someone with no experience. Again, the farmer stated that he "rarely" squatted those bags, but he didn't specify how rarely, so I guess you have a point there. He also stated that most of the other times, he carries them to the designated areas to dump them with his arms; he does lift heavy, but not increasingly heavy like powerlifters (and I this summer) usually aim for. It was surprising how he could squat the weight of a professional, pound-for-pound strong powerlifter without squatting with regularity and with increasing weights. My answer is... It doesn't matter, an inch, foot or complete deadlift... You need to be able to lift it off the ground, and a guy that DL 1000lbs would certainly be able to lift more weight an inch off the ground and thus they'd still be able to lift more than anyone else. Agreed with most of it. Maybe Eddie Hall could manage 1200-1300 pounds with just a half-or-slight inch off the ground? But a ton? Absolutely impossible for any world class athlete to even shift it in any way, but the "bearman" mentioned in one of my earlier posts could possibly either lift it an inch or slightly shift it. However, "lift more than anyone else"? No. Again, there are unknown humans who possibly have the potential to "inch-lift"/deadlift more than what Eddie can. I might be able to pull a 700-pound weighted-barbell off the floor with only an inch, give or take (but I am not betting on it, and I've never tried it.)
What I do know is this, though. No human (or primate, for that matter) can compete with an equally-sized big cat or bear when it comes to most (not all) displays of strength.
A professional 400-pound strongman like Eddie Hall might deadlift half a ton, but a 180-pound brown bear (referring to the study I once posted) could do much more vertically with ease. Most professional strongmen would struggle to the extreme to drag a 1300-pound moose carcass across a tiny grass field, but a much smaller bear and big cat can drag that weight with their arms at very extreme ease, and with their jaws, only a slightly greater struggle. Most professional strongmen would struggle throwing another human of equal weight a distance of two meters, but a much smaller bear and big cat can grapple and throw their equally-weighted opponents/paw strike them into flying farther distances more easily. Most professional strongmen should lift at least 380-pounds overhead. Can a big cat or bear do this? I don't know, but the bear would have an easier time than the cat, and the human would have a much easier time than the bear. Most professional strongmen bench somewhere in the range of 500-650 pounds. Can a big cat or bear do this? Probably, but all it will be is a sudden press and unequal control/leverage/grip of the bar. Their arms are not designed to push the bar that way. Their paws are not designed to grip things humans produce. A fully-grown tiger may not be as strong as the strongest man in some aspects, but that is only because the animal isn't built for those movements, not because the animal can't produce enough muscular/torque force for those movements. Read Ursus Arctos' post about the muscular differences between a lion and and a human from the Carnivora forums: Ursus Arctos' Post About Muscle Strength Between a Lion and Human Big cats and bears are made to grapple with prey and other animals, utilizing their flexible AND forceful limbs. Yet, humans, were made to run and endure activities at a set pace, and manipulate objects with their dexterity and (usually) flexible limbs. Strongmen are hugely inflexible, and only have strong limbs. Humans are on both opposite sides of what is considered a good grappler. Even with our world-class wrestlers (who often are extremely inflexible, yet strong), bears and big cats, even at a lower weight than that of the wrestlers, would quite easily dominate them in little time. In short, big cat or bear vs human at equal weight is just strength vs strength in different aspects.
"that he is utilizing has some sort of genetic defect which grows his arm triple the size of the other arm (forgot name of condition), "
That isn't correct, many pro arm wrestling grow massive forearms, since that is what they use to arm wrestle. There are a few that do have genetic predispositions though, like Schlit or Gabb, but that is the exception not the norm. Here is the arm wrestling champ against the mountain, he has no deformity, just massive forearms from years and years of arm wrestling. "765-pounds raw @ 242-pound weight class" Not sure what this has to do with anything? Here are the Deadlift records and the weight classes Class Lift Lifter Country Year Fed 123 634 Lamar Gant USA 1980 AAU* 132 628 Lamar Gant USA 1981 IPF 148 697 Dan Austin USA 12/02/93 IPF 165 760 Dmitriy Nasonov RUS 12/06/15 WRPF 181 791 Ed Coan USA 1984 USPF 198 870 Andrey Belyaev Russia 06/21/14 BB 220 901 Ed Coan USA 1991 USPF 242 921 Yury Belkin Russia 06/05/15 WRPF 275 915 Aria Attia USA 12/05/15 SPF 308 939 K Konstantinovs Latvia 2009 AWPC SHW 1,015 Benedikt Magnusson ISL 04/02/11 HARDCORE http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/raw/world These are the mens raw world records "But a ton? " I'm the one that said there isn't a chance that andrei could lift a ton, and showed how fake it was. "A professional 400-pound strongman like Eddie Hall might deadlift half a ton, but a 180-pound brown bear (referring to the study I once posted) could do much more vertically with ease." Maybe it could, maybe it couldn't. The fact remains that we don't know what the bear was lifting, how it was being lifted nor if it's comparable to a dl. Scientists aren't weight lifters, they are usually the furthest thing from it. So I wouldn't base a conclusion off of their observations unless you see it for yourself. "Most professional strongmen would struggle to the extreme to drag a 1300-pound moose carcass across a tiny grass field, but a much smaller bear and big cat can drag that weight with their arms at very extreme ease, and with their jaws, only a slightly greater struggle." I have never seen a small bear drag a large moose carcass, I have seen a good size bear drag a young moose across short grass. But that is a young moose, probably around 450lb mark, I highly doubt any big cat or bear is dragging a 1300 lb carcass with ease unless they are large individuals. Animals are also using 4 legs plus in big cats case, a flexible spine to drag compared to a human that would be walking backwards on two legs, unless you put a harness on a human, and we all know what humans can pull. (planes, trucks etc.) But I do know that 300lb men can drag 1000+ lbs, and I think that is pretty comparable to bears of 300lbs or less.  *This image is copyright of its original author "I recently dragged a 1000+ pound sled up a grade at the Sin City Strongman 4. I took 3rd in the event by a few tenths of a second but I believe only 5 of the 15 of us finished." (that's amateur btw) "A fully-grown tiger may not be as strong as the strongest man in some aspects, but that is only because the animal isn't built for those movements, not because the animal can't produce enough muscular/torque force for those movements." Exactly! Same goes for man.. Read Ursus Arctos' post about the muscular differences between a lion and and a human from the Carnivora forums: Can't read carnivora since Taipan decided to ban anyone who disagrees with him. "Strongmen are hugely inflexible, and only have strong limbs" Not true, many strongman are very flexible and explosive. I know numerous who have 50''+ Box jumps or do the splits, etc. Flexibility is a skill trained, you practice it, you can get better at it. (some people are more flexible than others naturally of course, same goes for anything) "n short, big cat or bear vs human at equal weight is just strength vs strength in different aspects." Agree I am in no way saying humans are as strong as equal sized big cats or bears when it comes to similar feats of strength, we aren't built for the hardships that they are, but the sacrifices we made in strength were because we evolved in a more beneficial way for our species.(walking up right for one) But I certainly think that too many people on certain forums just think that humans are weaklings, We are stronger than most know or realize. But I'm not even sure how the debate got here, it started with the fact that andreis "feat of strength" was fake, that was all I was saying. 
Just a small interruption here, gentlemen.
Strength is not easy to describe and to assess, was the point made. Another point is humans have no weapons whatsoever. In a confrontation with an animal, I can only get to a serious potential problem. Illustration. When In Switzerland quite some years ago, I left the station to find a place to stay. Just past the station, I saw what looked like a circus. When I got closer, The 'circus' turned out to be one cage wagon with two leopards, a male and a female. The crowd was a result of a dispute between the leopardess, the male and the trainer. What happened was this. The leopardess had had a bad day (I could hear her roaring in the station a hundred yards away or so) and the male had jumped her to cool her down. The leopardess responded by trying to kill him. The trainer gave everything he had to cool both down. And now for the result. The male leopard survived, but only just. The trainer was quite badly injured, but survived because he had the sense to stay out of the cage. The leopardess was a perfect fury and the result was an ambulance, police and a vet with a dart. The trainer had to be treated in hospital and the leopardess was darted. Next day, walking to the station, I visited the cage wagon again. Inside, I saw the trainer, still quite badly injured, with his princess on his lap. The male was in another cage. I asked a few questions. The conversation lasted for an hour and was recorded. The leopardess, he said, had been treated badly when young. He felt pity, bought her and they had become real close. The problem was she no accept competition. The trainer, mentioned in Tiede's book, had worked with (polar) bears, brown bears, Himalayan bears, lions, tigers, pumas, leopards, wolves and everything else as well. He never saw anything as angry and as vicious as that leopardess, he said. A little princess, she was, but a killer. The only one she accepted, was the trainer. In order to underline the point made, she gazed at me for an hour. Talking obsessions. Can't you find a way to deal with her, I asked? He was long, fit, very experienced and very stable. The answer was no. The problem was he couldn't sell her. The first time he did, she had killed. The second time, she nearly killed herself. Eternal friends, they were. The leopardess, by the way, was almost 50 pounds (22,68 kg.). I never saw one so small. I'm not saying she was stronger than a fit man, but she was lightning fast, heavily armed and capable of killing much larger animals than herself in seconds. As for sheer strength. The trainer told me he couldn't describe what he felt, but he wasn't able to constrain her for even a few seconds. Every time he tried, he paid. The wounds he showed were quite terrible. The other day, she nearly killed him. Maybe the story is a bit over the top, but it really happened and I was there. Was it over the top? The trainer told me about a friend who had been killed by a young bear in a surprise fight after an act that didn't work out. Happened in training. Big man, small and timid bear, fight, two assistents and dead trainer. Are some men so strong it's difficult to find the words to describe their strength? Yes. But when a smallish black bear kicks in the door of the cabin of a strong man in order to attack him, the man doesn't stand a chance. Is this post an example of degrading human strength? Most certainly not. Some humans are very strong. The problem is it is difficult to effectively use in a fight with an animal like an similar-sized or even slightly smaller predator. Everything wild animals have and do is directed at survival, which is not the case in (modern) humans. The real strength in humans is in something different. Wild animals in particular know. I've seen remarkable examples of people able to effectively use it, but that's another story. Would be a nice topic.
I'd like to make sure that it doesn't sound like I am saying a human being is capable of the destructive prowess of a wild animal, that certainly isn't the case.
Claws, fangs, ferocity and durability are not in the human beings favor when comparing them to a wild animal, but remove those factors from the equation and I think most here would be surprised just how comparable in strength humans are to animals of similar size. But remember, I'm talking about the exceptional human beings in the strength dept, not the entire population. But that doesn't mean that all humans aren't capable of achieving such feats, strength can be learned, some more so than others, but still, every human being can become stronger. While you can make a point and say, "well Pckts, you're comparing the top 1% of human beings to the average animal. " That may be so, but the "average animal" lives in the wild and thus they continually gain the strength needed to survive and thus their hardships in life will make them strong. (iron sharpens iron) If humans needed to be strong to sustain their lives, they'd focus on it, but since gaining strength is no longer necessary for our survival, the gap between us and wild animals will only grow.
@LionTiger,
What the heck? Are you new here or are you just trying to get a response out of any of us? Please don't bother wasting your time here (or in WildFact) if you are going to continually post those kinds of posts. Thank you.
@Pckts and @peter,
There might be more to a wild animal's strength than meets the eye (same as humans). Not only do morphological and physiological differences exist between the two, but so do differences within the muscle. Things like differing muscle fiber types, sacromere arrangements, muscle mass, muscle density. All these factors also play a very important role in determining force that a muscle can exert. It is commonly stated that big cats have more vast amounts of fast-twitch fibers than any primate or human does, but I am not sure if that is true or not anymore. It is incorrect to assume that a strongman can compare to a big cat or bear of equal weight in a similar test of muscular strength (pulling) without much evidence; one must look at the total muscular composition and physical differences between the two to make such a statement. Even though all mammalian muscle is (probably) made of the same protein chains and stuctures, the differences within the muscle makes human muscle different to tiger muscle different to gaur muscle, and so on... Videos (and other non-scientific evidences) are mostly good for showing what an animal can minimally do, not for determining the max capabilities of that animal. Scientific research and evidence directed to test the physiology and muscular composition of that certain animal will really reveal what it is maximally capable of. This will turn into a "Gir Forest video" situation where many pages will result from debating about the video. We don't want this to happen. I also do agree that the study I posted on the "Bear Strength" forum is not 100% conclusive to entail the differences in strength between an equally-weighted human and bear. But that bear easily lifted an 800+ pound barbell designed with specific bear handles, so that is a dent in my thinking. Anyway, what do you think of using scientific evidence to base our strength claims on? Do you agree? Just want to end this debate and continue posting things specifically about "Human Strength." 
Hello guys ! I really discover this thread only now... Quite new for me these accounts about wrestlers, fighters, powerlifters and so on... When I was young (seventies) teenager I learnt the Bruce Lee's death. Just after I started, unpretentious, to make judo... I have never practiced strength sports as you described.
Now, each day a few physical training in order to stay fit (150-200 pushups in one step), never take the lift, always prefer going on foot rather by bus and so on. Huge animals fascinate me, but I never had a competitor's temperament. I only try to live healthy and it is not always easy. About the human strength... We cannot compare human strength with wild animals one. Just look at a modern man's skeleton close to an prehistoric man's one. We seem to be very puny, stunted. The occlusal surface of teeth is 3 or 4 times smaller, our bones are so thin. I think the first men' strength was perhaps equal to the big apes of the same weigth but then... Our civilization has done its work. Physically, the modern man is very weak, without natural weapon. Of course he is able to shape his own destiny. He can decide to become the greatest, the strongest one... with his human caracteristics. @ Polar: Your story about the bulgarian bearman, whom your father met, is fascinating. A sort of european Tarzan. There are some exceptions, some men whose live was, healthy speaking, "completely" allotted to the open air activities. Between Tarzan and the bearman, perhaps the animals are able to make us come back toward the times of our origins... And doing this we would borrow some animals features. (your bearman was physically strong like a bear, Tarzan moved among the trees like a big ape). (07-17-2016, 01:15 PM)Spalea Wrote: Hello guys ! I really discover this thread only now... Quite new for me these accounts about wrestlers, fighters, powerlifters and so on... When I was young (seventies) teenager I learnt the Bruce Lee's death. Just after I started, unpretentious, to make judo... I have never practiced strength sports as you described. I don't really know what to think now when comparing modern humans to big apes and other animals of equal weight, either their strengths are comparable or they are not. But for now, we'll need to find scientific studies/literature/documentation to prove either point. Even smallish big cats and bears tend to have much thicker and denser bones than even a heavier and taller man does, and even among modern humans, people of African descent (I am half) tend to have slightly denser bones for the same bone diameter. Bone composition is a very large indicator of strength, and most animals relative to our size (including the great apes) tend to have this advantage to the extreme. More cortical bone density, more denser cross-section area of a bone, etc... We simply have to look for science as a way to solve this problem instead of non-scientific visual proof. |
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