+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion)
+----- Thread: The Birmingham Males (/topic-the-birmingham-males)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tr1x24 - 10-31-2021
(10-31-2021, 06:18 AM)Timbavati Wrote: Tinyo of the Birmingham males in Ngala Private Game Reserve in 2012
Photo by: Terry Allen
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Do you know which month in 2012 was this taken?
RE: The Birmingham Males - Potato - 10-31-2021
(10-31-2021, 09:05 AM)Slayerd Wrote: The Souther Matimbas lost it very quickly after running from the Bboys to the Matshipiri.That is because of direct competition, not because of the location. Prime Matshapiris were not to be mess with and the Birminghams especially not quite in their prime anymore rather wouldn't do better than Matimbas if they were at their place. Your list of coalitions defeated by Birminghams some absurd. Neither PC males or Nwalungu or Nwas ever challanged Birminghams. Each of them moved to the other arenas to contest other lands. You even mentioned in your post some transpasing youngsters mentioned by Mala Mala. They weren't even photographed. They easly would be just some 2 and half or so year olds. They also definitelly were not challangers to Birminghams lands. The only challanges Birminghams faced in the last 2 years were single Othawa male and 2 Avocas. Also even Avocas did not pushed on them too hard and still focus more around Nkuchuma pride insteed on taking over Kambula pride.
(10-31-2021, 09:05 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Western Sabi Sands that the Mapogos, Majingilane and the Southern Matimbas held at the end of their reigns was far easier to hold.
Lol you must be joking. Holding from 6 Matimbas (it that case it was rather just recon mission similar to 4 Nwas vs Birminghams, but still rather we would all agree to Matimbas were much stronger coalition than Nwas) and from 4 Salatis was easy and holding from 2 Avocas was very hard xD Times at the end of Mapogos reign (2011/2012) were the times of the strongers competition in Sabi Sands in the last 2 dekades, maybe even by far, while last years 2018-2021 were one of the easiest if not the easiest in terms of the male lions competition in Sabi Sands. Now the competition is a bit stronger with arrival of Imbali male, coming of age of PC males and N'was getting older and stronger, but those are still rather easy times with even big piece of land (Singita) being still at vacat. The current times are not even comparable to 2011/2012.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Tr1x24 - 10-31-2021
In past 2 years, Nhenha and Tinyo have more reports/sightings of chasing/clashing with other males (regardless if they directly challenge them or not, if they didnt show teeth to N'ws for example they would challenge them shortly after, and lets not pretend this was not "serious" clash, Nhenha/Tinyo would definitely kill N'ws male if they manage to caught 1, you could see that in their looks) then all other coalitions in Sabi Sands combine.
But @Potato will still try his hardest to discredit them.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Duco Ndona - 10-31-2021
I think you are giving them a bit too much credit here.
Tinyo was in a very bad shape for a while and seperated from the rest. If any of those coalitions found him back then, it wouldnt have been much of a fight.
And while Nhenha alone could have chased off a young nomadic coalition. Challenging a coalition of lions in their prime like the 2 Avocas or 4 Nwaswitshakas without backup would have been a different story.
Formidable coalition or not. It really was down to luck they werent forced in a big fight in that period. Ultimately, time is not on their side.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Potato - 10-31-2021
Also Tinyo was in bad shape for just like 2 weeks and apart from that he is and was in good shape. Saying that Birminghams gave up territory because Tinyo was/is in no shape to defend it doesn't make sense.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Slayerd - 10-31-2021
(10-31-2021, 01:44 PM)Potato Wrote:It is the location, the Matshipiri Males pushed them into other males, in fact they pushed them north into the Bboys who in early 2017, Nhenha and Mfumo sent them running in Cheetah Plains. Next point I never said defeated not once in my post like some type of war, I was speaking to the defense of their territory and pushing other males out in order to protect their territory. Why do you think the PC boy, Nwalungu Males and Nwaswitshaka moved to compete for other lands? Was it just a feeling? You say the 4 Nwaswitshaka wasnt challenging the Bboys? They were clearly making noise or the Bboys wouldn't have even come south and the Bboys sent them running south as 2 vs 4. The Bboys did exactly what the Mapogos did with the 6 Matimbas, they sent possible challengers running. Im not going to compare this coalition to that coalition like you do. I'm comparing location, western Sabi Sand can be pushed from far less choke points then central. That's obvious. You don't even realize why lions even push territories. It's not because this lion is stronger than that lion, it's because of pressure and presence. You don't know how all these things would have played out in other times. You're just using a time where lion warfare was more extreme to judge the Bboys when you have no idea.(10-31-2021, 09:05 AM)Slayerd Wrote: The Souther Matimbas lost it very quickly after running from the Bboys to the Matshipiri.That is because of direct competition, not because of the location. Prime Matshapiris were not to be mess with and the Birminghams especially not quite in their prime anymore rather wouldn't do better than Matimbas if they were at their place. Your list of coalitions defeated by Birminghams some absurd. Neither PC males or Nwalungu or Nwas ever challanged Birminghams. Each of them moved to the other arenas to contest other lands. You even mentioned in your post some transpasing youngsters mentioned by Mala Mala. They weren't even photographed. They easly would be just some 2 and half or so year olds. They also definitelly were not challangers to Birminghams lands. The only challanges Birminghams faced in the last 2 years were single Othawa male and 2 Avocas. Also even Avocas did not pushed on them too hard and still focus more around Nkuchuma pride insteed on taking over Kambula pride.
(10-31-2021, 09:05 AM)Slayerd Wrote: Western Sabi Sands that the Mapogos, Majingilane and the Southern Matimbas held at the end of their reigns was far easier to hold.
Lol you must be joking. Holding from 6 Matimbas (it that case it was rather just recon mission similar to 4 Nwas vs Birminghams, but still rather we would all agree to Matimbas were much stronger coalition than Nwas) and from 4 Salatis was easy and holding from 2 Avocas was very hard xD Times at the end of Mapogos reign (2011/2012) were the times of the strongers competition in Sabi Sands in the last 2 dekades, maybe even by far, while last years 2018-2021 were one of the easiest if not the easiest in terms of the male lions competition in Sabi Sands. Now the competition is a bit stronger with arrival of Imbali male, coming of age of PC males and N'was getting older and stronger, but those are still rather easy times with even big piece of land (Singita) being still at vacat. The current times are not even comparable to 2011/2012
RE: The Birmingham Males - Hairy tummy - 10-31-2021
Hi potato, i have great respect for your knowledge on lions but it seems like you tend to focus on the negatives when it comes to the Birmingham boys.you dont seem to do this with any other coalition, Is there any particular reason for this?
RE: The Birmingham Males - Slayerd - 10-31-2021
(10-31-2021, 03:47 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I think you are giving them a bit too much credit here.
Tinyo was in a very bad shape for a while and seperated from the rest. If any of those coalitions found him back then, it wouldnt have been much of a fight.
And while Nhenha alone could have chased off a young nomadic coalition. Challenging a coalition of lions in their prime like the 2 Avocas or 4 Nwaswitshakas without backup would have been a different story.
Formidable coalition or not. It really was down to luck they werent forced in a big fight in that period. Ultimately, time is not on their side.
Luck or a strong presence, like I said Nhenha and Tinyo turned the Nwaswitshaka away from the north. I doubt they will even try to push north unless the Bboys are pushed out or die. It's all about presence, the Avocas didn't push further because the Bboys still had presence further south. It's not like Tinyo wasn't roaring.
RE: The Birmingham Males - WildRev - 10-31-2021
(10-31-2021, 04:54 PM)Slayerd Wrote:(10-31-2021, 03:47 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: I think you are giving them a bit too much credit here.
Tinyo was in a very bad shape for a while and seperated from the rest. If any of those coalitions found him back then, it wouldnt have been much of a fight.
And while Nhenha alone could have chased off a young nomadic coalition. Challenging a coalition of lions in their prime like the 2 Avocas or 4 Nwaswitshakas without backup would have been a different story.
Formidable coalition or not. It really was down to luck they werent forced in a big fight in that period. Ultimately, time is not on their side.
Luck or a strong presence, like I said Nhenha and Tinyo turned the Nwaswitshaka away from the north. I doubt they will even try to push north unless the Bboys are pushed out or die. It's all about presence, the Avocas didn't push further because the Bboys still had presence further south. It's not like Tinyo wasn't roaring.
Or they (Avocas/N'waswitshakas) don't push further because they are satisfied with what they have at the moment.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Potato - 10-31-2021
(10-31-2021, 04:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: Why do you think the PC boyBecause they had easier territory to take near by. There is no reason to take risk of fighting with Avocas or Birminghams when they can just easly take uncontested Singita without taking any risk.
(10-31-2021, 04:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: Nwaswitshaka moved to compete for other lands?Perhaps by the time they had that run in with Birminghams they didn't feel confident enough or did not want to take extra risk while they already had recured territory in Sabi Sabi and now maybe for they prefere to push in other direction or are contend with amount lands and pride they have. That this coalition of 4 males in prime are scared of 2 ageing Birminghams are among least expected reasons for them not to expand north.
(10-31-2021, 04:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: Im not going to compare this coalition to that coalition like you do. I'm comparing locationThat is way your way of thinking doesn't make sense and is leading to claims like Mapogos had easier way to defend their territory than Birminghams have.
(10-31-2021, 04:29 PM)Slayerd Wrote: That's obvious. You don't even realize why lions even push territories.
Ofc lol
(10-31-2021, 04:37 PM)Hairy tummy Wrote: Hi potato, i have great respect for your knowledge on lions but it seems like you tend to focus on the negatives when it comes to the Birmingham boys.you dont seem to do this with any other coalition, Is there any particular reason for this?
That is just your imperssion. I imagine that is because if I write somethink good about Birminghams or somethink good/bad about just about anyother coalition it goes quiet and might be unnotice, while when I say somethink bad about Birminghams there in tons of sh*it storm from Birmingham's fanboys and such thinks never go unnotice.
(10-31-2021, 04:54 PM)Slayerd Wrote: It's all about presence, the Avocas didn't push further because the Bboys still had presence further south. It's not like Tinyo wasn't roaring.Birmingham's presence wasn't stopping Avocas so far and now they are supposed to get more worry? It doesn't make sense.
RE: The Birmingham Males - T I N O - 10-31-2021
(10-31-2021, 12:26 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(10-31-2021, 06:18 AM)Timbavati Wrote: Tinyo of the Birmingham males in Ngala Private Game Reserve in 2012
Photo by: Terry Allen
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Do you know which month in 2012 was this taken?
No, Unfortunately, I don't know in which month these pics were taken. However, I'll try to find the month of the pics
RE: The Birmingham Males - Duco Ndona - 10-31-2021
The Birminghams spend that time largely seperated. So even if they roared together. It would still gave away that they are alone and vulnerable. So it wasn't presence.
I am just saying it was a period where the coalition could have been easily evicted if an attack took place and that they were lucky none took place. Not that its to blame for territorial changes that did occur as they mostly occured outside that time period.
They are a formidable coalition. But not superlions that could single handly wipe out an entire coalition with a single paw. They have their limits.
RE: The Birmingham Males - T I N O - 10-31-2021
Hi guys. At this stage. I think it would be good if we just stop with this debate to avoid flooding “The Birmingham males thread" with these non-stop discussions about these coalitions. Each of us will have a different point of view of the lion dynamics and that is normal as long as it’s totally respectable. Note, We should not call each-other hater or fanboy. It's disrespectful behavior on this forum and unnecessary.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Slayerd - 10-31-2021
(10-31-2021, 06:37 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: The Birminghams spend that time largely seperated. So even if they roared together. It would still gave away that they are alone and vulnerable. So it wasn't presence.
I am just saying it was a period where the coalition could have been easily evicted if an attack took place and that they were lucky none took place. Not that its to blame for territorial changes that did occur as they mostly occured outside that time period.
They are a formidable coalition. But not superlions that could single handly wipe out an entire coalition with a single paw. They have their limits.
I didn't call them superlions and I don't think they're unstoppable. I'm just giving them the credit they deserve. It doesn't matter if they're separated on occasion. A presence is a presence. It's disrespectful in my opinion to discredit them and call their reign luck or to say they aren't doing a good job. Not to mention that people have been waiting for their end for 2 years now. And it's pretty weird how Potato finds every loop hole in order to discredit them. I won't argue anymore. It's pretty useless.
RE: The Birmingham Males - Duco Ndona - 10-31-2021
I am not calling their entire reign luck though. Just them getting through that sickness. And the superlion thing was more to the idea that one single Birmingham could defeat both Avocas.
But anyway, lets move on.