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+----- Thread: The Matimba coalition (/topic-the-matimba-coalition)
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RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-13-2018
The two Older Mbiri Males are alive. They were born in 2011. One has formed a coalition with Rofkig Male and they rule Nsemani Pride. And the other Mbiri has formed a coalition with another unknown Male in Talamati area Kruger national park. Credits: Legend Safaris ( Note they shared these thoughts in comments on of their post.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-13-2018
These twp Mbiri are different from other 2 Mbiri Males of Timbavati.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-14-2018
(09-14-2018, 03:41 AM)Herekitty Wrote: The two older Mbiri males who were fathered by Hairy Belly and Ginger Matimba and born in 2011 are the only known adult Mbiri males. They frequent Tanda Tula Safari Camp, Umlani Bush Camp in Timbavati Private Game Reserve, Klaserie Private Nature Reserve and Tintswalo Safari Lodge in Manyeleti. They dominate the Ross, Zebinine and Myambula prides.
The photo of the lion you posted above is from Satara rest camp, which is a long distance from their normal range.
Hetekitty, seems like you didn't get my post. there are two different Mbiri coalitions sired by Mbiri and fathered by Matimbas. 2 Mbiri were born in 2011 and they are different from Timbavati/Tanda Tula Mbiris. And 3 Mbiris were born in 2013/14, and one of them went missing after a altercation with Thanda impi males. Only 2 remain now they rule Zebinine and Ross frmales etc..
I told you to check the comments on above legend safaris post. There is always more to wild than you know.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-14-2018
(09-14-2018, 10:39 AM)Herekitty Wrote: You may be right. The problem is your only reference source is the comments section of a Legend Safaris photograph, which doesn't carry a lot of statistical significance. Can anyone confirm that the well known pair of Mbiri males currently around Tanda Tula were born in 2013? Both the Mbiri male and Mbiri Pride facebook pages state that they were born in 2011.
By the way, I did read the comments you referred to, and they made clear that the photo you posted above is the Rockfig male.
Mr kitty i have been on this lion platform since 2009, those who have been here since 2010 or 2011 know this better.
And that Mbiri Males Facebook is for the older Mbiri Males. you can simply differentiate lions with their face pattern and scars if you are good at it... kindly increase your knowledge. Go check Tintswalo lodges old Facebook posts from 2013 or 2014 and know the two different set of Mbiri Males by yourself.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-14-2018
(09-14-2018, 10:39 AM)Herekitty Wrote: You may be right. The problem is your only reference source is the comments section of a Legend Safaris photograph, which doesn't carry a lot of statistical significance. Can anyone confirm that the well known pair of Mbiri males currently around Tanda Tula were born in 2013? Both the Mbiri male and Mbiri Pride facebook pages state that they were born in 2011.
By the way, I did read the comments you referred to, and they made clear that the photo you posted above is the Rockfig male.
I have seen reference but i don't remember them all. I thought most of you knew this but seems you are all new here.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-14-2018
I recently a video from a Mapogo fan page saying Mapogos defeated Matimbas but that's not true and nobody knows what happened during that night in 2011.... Most importantly it was not a territorial battle between Matimbas and Mapogos. Rather tracks showed the Matimbas followed a large herd of buffalo which lead them to sabisands boundary...
below I want to share the Original and only report available on this altercation..
RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-14-2018
(09-14-2018, 11:28 AM)Legendary Wrote: I recently saw a video from a Mapogo fan page saying Mapogos defeated Matimbas but that's not true and nobody knows what happened during that night in 2011.... Most importantly it was not a territorial battle between Matimbas and Mapogos. Rather tracks showed the Matimbas followed a large herd of buffalo which lead them to sabisands boundary...
below I want to share the Original and only report available on this altercation..
RE: the Matimba coalition - Peteporker - 09-15-2018
(09-14-2018, 10:49 AM)Legendary Wrote:(09-14-2018, 10:39 AM)Herekitty Wrote: You may be right. The problem is your only reference source is the comments section of a Legend Safaris photograph, which doesn't carry a lot of statistical significance. Can anyone confirm that the well known pair of Mbiri males currently around Tanda Tula were born in 2013? Both the Mbiri male and Mbiri Pride facebook pages state that they were born in 2011.
By the way, I did read the comments you referred to, and they made clear that the photo you posted above is the Rockfig male.
I have seen reference but i don't remember them all. I thought most of you knew this but seems you are all new here.
I had been wondering what happened to the two older Mbiri males. Are there any ranger reports to confirm the identity of the two older Mbiri males other than comments from readers?
There are two separate litters of Mbiri males, an older litter of two males and a younger litter of 3 males. The two older males are a few years older than the younger ones so went nomadic first and went into the KNP in late 2014. Around 2015, one of the two older males returned to the Mbiri pride in Tintswalo alone and in really bad condition. The assumption was that his brother had died. After returning to the natal pride, there were some tensions with this male and the three younger males. He received a few beatings from the 3 younger males and a beating from skorro and sizanni of the Thanda Impi coalition so eventually left the pride again. Around the same time, the younger ones had gone nomadic as well due to pressure from the Thanda Impi males. One of the three younger males died during their nomadic period and now we are left with only two males out of the three that dominate the Timbavati area.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-15-2018
(09-15-2018, 01:25 AM)Peteporker Wrote:(09-14-2018, 10:49 AM)Legendary Wrote:(09-14-2018, 10:39 AM)Herekitty Wrote: You may be right. The problem is your only reference source is the comments section of a Legend Safaris photograph, which doesn't carry a lot of statistical significance. Can anyone confirm that the well known pair of Mbiri males currently around Tanda Tula were born in 2013? Both the Mbiri male and Mbiri Pride facebook pages state that they were born in 2011.
By the way, I did read the comments you referred to, and they made clear that the photo you posted above is the Rockfig male.
I have seen reference but i don't remember them all. I thought most of you knew this but seems you are all new here.
I had been wondering what happened to the two older Mbiri males. Are there any ranger reports to confirm the identity of the two older Mbiri males other than comments from readers?
There are two separate litters of Mbiri males, an older litter of two males and a younger litter of 3 males. The two older males are a few years older than the younger ones so went nomadic first and went into the KNP in late 2014. Around 2015, one of the two older males returned to the Mbiri pride in Tintswalo alone and in really bad condition. The assumption was that his brother had died. After returning to the natal pride, there were some tensions with this male and the three younger males. He received a few beatings from the 3 younger males and a beating from skorro and sizanni of the Thanda Impi coalition so eventually left the pride again. Around the same time, the younger ones had gone nomadic as well due to pressure from the Thanda Impi males. One of the three younger males died during their nomadic period and now we are left with only two males out of the three that dominate the Timbavati area.
Those are comments by a ranger. The admin of Legend Safaris is Arun C. Rao. He is a ranger. He shares own photos.
If i remember Tintswalo also mentioned them in their comments.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Herekitty - 09-15-2018
Unfortunately all of the Tintswalo Ranger's reports between November 2013 and July 2016 were deleted when they set up their new website, which is a shame because they appear to be the sole source of information for the Mbiri pride in those years. So what I've found is this. In July 2012 six Matimba males arrived in Tintswalo and killed some of the cubs they sired with the Mbiri females the year before, leaving only two male cubs alive. Around December 2013 six more Mbiri/Matimba cubs were born, 3 males and 3 females. In March 2016 Tintswalo reported that the two older Mbiri males were spotted in their reserve for the first time since September 2015. Shortly afterwards they headed back into KNP. Here are the two older males in late August 2015 just before leaving their mother pride and nearing 4 years of age. Credit: images by Darren Donovon, posted August 28, 2015.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
So two separate sets of males fathered by the Matimbas were discharged from the pride; the two born in 2011 moved off in September 2015; while the three males born in 2013 became exiled in July 2016 with the arrival of the Thanda Impi males. One of them subsequently died. Early photos of the 2013 males also appear to match whisker markings of the Tanda Tula Mbiri males, which confirms that these two Mbiris were born in 2013:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
This confirms what @Legendary stated. As such, I must apologise for showing my ignorance and contradicting him without investigating the facts. Further to this I found this post from Fredymrt from last year in the Lions of Timbavati thread:
A few months back the last remaining Mbiri male formed a coalition with an unknown male at Talamati area! The Mbiri males were originally a coalition of 2 males but one of the males disappeared in 2015. (His brother is missing and presumed dead. not 100% on that.) The Mbiri males were fathered by the Matimbas and they come from the Mbiri pride.
Mbiri Male Photo Credits:Sandra Willis Claassen
*This image is copyright of its original author
Mbiri male & unknown male
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: the Matimba coalition - Matimbalani - 09-15-2018
(09-14-2018, 10:39 AM)Herekitty Wrote: You may be right. The problem is your only reference source is the comments section of a Legend Safaris photograph, which doesn't carry a lot of statistical significance. Can anyone confirm that the well known pair of Mbiri males currently around Tanda Tula were born in 2013? Both the Mbiri male and Mbiri Pride facebook pages state that they were born in 2011.
By the way, I did read the comments you referred to, and they made clear that the photo you posted above is the Rockfig male.
Is this the same Rockfig male that was once seen with White Face Matimba?
RE: the Matimba coalition - Herekitty - 09-17-2018
Credit: image by Stefan Swanepoel at Dulini, posted September 16, 2018
*This image is copyright of its original author
@Matimbalani - that would be interesting if the Rockfig male was hanging out with an old Matimba one year, (as seen here #441 on page 30) and one of their offspring the next.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Matimbalani - 09-17-2018
(09-17-2018, 09:30 AM)Herekitty Wrote: Credit: image by Stefan Swanepoel at Dulini, posted September 16, 2018
*This image is copyright of its original author
@Matimbalani - that would be interesting if the Rockfig male was hanging out with an old Matimba one year, (as seen here #441 on page 30) and one of their offspring the next.
@Herekitty - Yeah, though I wonder what's the calculus going into it. Do or can lions assess the viability of their partner based on age and ability before forming a long term relationship? That would be an interesting question to answer.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Spalea - 09-17-2018
#1034: IMO, when two lions are at equal age and vigor (vigour), more or less, I think it's sufficient to be committed. To share their destinies...
RE: the Matimba coalition - Legendary - 09-24-2018
The Othawa cubs are alive because Matimbas have made no intention to find and kill them... No way they would have survived since then.. Same goes for Othawa Male... He wasn't chased either.
Matimbas have accepted the cubs.