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+--- Thread: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear (/topic-the-king-of-the-bears-comparison-between-the-polar-bear-and-the-brown-bear)
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - AlexE - 11-04-2019
I think that polar bear are the lagrest bear.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brow... - BorneanTiger - 11-04-2019
(11-04-2019, 02:49 PM)AlexE Wrote: I think that polar bear are the lagrest bear.
In terms of average weight, the polar bear would be the largest as a species, because most brown bears are smaller, with only the Kodiak brown bear rivalling it, but overall, it's a competition between the polar bear and Kodiak brown bear, hence the poll.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brow... - GreenGrolar - 11-24-2019
Comparison between brown bear and polar bear in captivity:
Unlike the brown bear, polar bears in captivity are rarely overweight or particularly large, possibly as a reaction to the warm conditions of most zoos.
https://www.projectnoah.org/spottings/11801217
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - Stripedlion2 - 07-26-2020
Does anyone have the average and maximum weights of grolar bears? Do they rival the Kodiak or polar bear in size?
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brow... - Shadow - 07-26-2020
(07-26-2020, 06:36 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote: Does anyone have the average and maximum weights of grolar bears? Do they rival the Kodiak or polar bear in size?
In wild they are hybrids of smaller brown bears than Kodiak bears or Alaskan peninsula bears, so it´s not likely to think, that they could be same as Kodiak bears. Even though polar bears are biggest, difference isn´t that much. Most likely they are somewhere in between of brown bears living inland and polar bears are. So maybe some big ones might be close to Kodiak bears, but hardly same as polar bears.
I haven´t been too interested of grolars and I don´t know how it is in captivity, there they might have hybrids of bigger brown bear subspecies and polar bears, but in wild it should be quite clear, that polar bears meet only smaller brown bears and most likely hybrids are smaller too. I guess, that you think about ligers in this in comparison, but with tigers and lions size difference is marginal if in reality any at all, when looking at weights of fit individuals. So it´s no surprise, that hybrid(s) are the size they are. And before someone mention genes of male lions causing acromegaly, it´s no news. Even without it, hybrids of tigers and lions are big, because they are so similar sized big cats. But with these bears situation isn´t the same, brown bear is clearly smaller and so it´s logical, that hybrids can´t be as big as polar bears are.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - Stripedlion2 - 07-27-2020
Thank you. Any weights on grolar bears or estimates?
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - Jerricson - 05-14-2022
''They kept saying it could be the biggest bear they had ever taken; so we figured out a way to get it loaded whole and took it back to the lodge. They flew in a hanging scale so we could weigh him. After gallons of blood loss he weighed 1,417 pounds. He would have been close to 1,450 pounds while alive. His hide squared 10’4”. He was 7’10” around the belly and 9’1” nose to tail."
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://miaanstine.com/2014/11/11/archery-alaskan-brown-bear-hunt/
It's quite sickening to see people doing this. Regardless , @GuateGojira , what are your thoughts regarding this specimen ? I guess this might be a new possible record.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - GuateGojira - 05-16-2022
(05-14-2022, 09:29 AM)Jerricson Wrote: 'They kept saying it could be the biggest bear they had ever taken; so we figured out a way to get it loaded whole and took it back to the lodge. They flew in a hanging scale so we could weigh him. After gallons of blood loss he weighed 1,417 pounds. He would have been close to 1,450 pounds while alive. His hide squared 10’4”. He was 7’10” around the belly and 9’1” nose to tail."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://miaanstine.com/2014/11/11/archer...bear-hunt/
It's quite sickening to see people doing this. Regardless , @GuateGojira , what are your thoughts regarding this specimen ? I guess this might be a new possible record.
Honestly I don't know if we can trust in these modern records, too many estimations and innacuracies, but I think that for a hunting record is ok.
Now, about the dimentions in the picture, certainly are exagerated by the effect of camera and pictures. Imagin a bear with a paw larger than its own head! It is rubbish how these hunters try to exagerate they kills to increase they own ego.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brow... - Jerricson - 05-17-2022
(05-16-2022, 11:13 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:Yeah, I agree with you . So , the biggest kodiak specimen weighed from scientific records would be the 1350 lbs male from Troyer's study.(05-14-2022, 09:29 AM)Jerricson Wrote: 'They kept saying it could be the biggest bear they had ever taken; so we figured out a way to get it loaded whole and took it back to the lodge. They flew in a hanging scale so we could weigh him. After gallons of blood loss he weighed 1,417 pounds. He would have been close to 1,450 pounds while alive. His hide squared 10’4”. He was 7’10” around the belly and 9’1” nose to tail."
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://miaanstine.com/2014/11/11/archer...bear-hunt/
It's quite sickening to see people doing this. Regardless , @GuateGojira , what are your thoughts regarding this specimen ? I guess this might be a new possible record.
Honestly I don't know if we can trust in these modern records, too many estimations and innacuracies, but I think that for a hunting record is ok.
Now, about the dimentions in the picture, certainly are exagerated by the effect of camera and pictures. Imagin a bear with a paw larger than its own head! It is rubbish how these hunters try to exagerate they kills to increase they own ego.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - GuateGojira - 05-17-2022
(05-17-2022, 07:19 PM)Jerricson Wrote: Yeah, I agree with you . So , the biggest kodiak specimen weighed from scientific records would be the 1350 lbs male from Troyer's study.
Yes, the biggest brown bear that I know, in scientific record, is an adult male of 611 kg from the Kodiak Island (Blanchard, 1987).
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - GreenGrolar - 06-04-2022
While kodiak bears might be pound to pound stronger, I personally believe that the male polar bears from Foxe Basin are the king of the bears. The largest scientifically verified male polar bear is 810 kg (excluding the hunting articles where the largest male polar bear shot was 2210 pounds).
No doubt there is a kodiak bear named Goliath which has reached 2500 pounds but a wild male polar bear will be fitter than a captive kodiak bear.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - GuateGojira - 06-04-2022
(06-04-2022, 05:13 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: While kodiak bears might be pound to pound stronger, I personally believe that the male polar bears from Foxe Basin are the king of the bears. The largest scientifically verified male polar bear is 810 kg (excluding the hunting articles where the largest male polar bear shot was 2210 pounds).
No doubt there is a kodiak bear named Goliath which has reached 2500 pounds but a wild male polar bear will be fitter than a captive kodiak bear.
I am not aware of this debate of Polar vs Kodiak, but may you please show the information that support/suggest that Kodiak bears are "stronger pound to pound" than polar bears?
What I have read suggest that they are equal, or that polars are stronger based in they bigger size, but are just opinions, no data attached.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brow... - GreenGrolar - 06-05-2022
(06-04-2022, 09:58 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:(06-04-2022, 05:13 PM)GreenGrolar Wrote: While kodiak bears might be pound to pound stronger, I personally believe that the male polar bears from Foxe Basin are the king of the bears. The largest scientifically verified male polar bear is 810 kg (excluding the hunting articles where the largest male polar bear shot was 2210 pounds).
No doubt there is a kodiak bear named Goliath which has reached 2500 pounds but a wild male polar bear will be fitter than a captive kodiak bear.
I am not aware of this debate of Polar vs Kodiak, but may you please show the information that support/suggest that Kodiak bears are "stronger pound to pound" than polar bears?
What I have read suggest that they are equal, or that polars are stronger based in they bigger size, but are just opinions, no data attached.
Polar bear's seem to be the one with stronger forelimbs:
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://books.google.com.au/books?dq=the+front+and+back+leg+bones+of+polar+bears+are+denser+than+grizzlies&hl=en&id=aouJPNt1P4gC&lpg=PT34&ots=C9bqEOt9TV&pg=PT34&sa=X&sig=mM5K9chL6f-3368JTO3z9PUixX0&source=bl&ved=0ahUKEwj3i_z0xJHaAhVW9WMKHS7nBn4Q6AEIWjAI#v=onepage&q&f=false
Sometime ago, Ursus Artos (he hasn't posted a long time) posted data that polar bears have denser bones than brown bears just as a hippo has denser bones than a rhino (can't find that data anymore).
Polar bear's seem to be better grapplers than brown bears:
1. Polar Bear: -7.999
2. Brown Bear: -7.045
3. Spectacled Bear: -6.517
4. Giant Panda: -6.034
5. American Black Bear: -5.521
6. Sloth Bear: -4.447
https://domainofthebears.proboards.com/thread/819/comparing-grappling-ability-extant-ursids
However, brown bear's seem to have a more developed shoulder hump:
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://books.google.it/books?id=D6YTYq5ShTIC&pg=PA41&dq=The+pronounced+shoulder+hump+is+actually+a+powerful+muscle+the+bear+uses+for+digging.&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjG4_jtgpvzAhXPDOwKHXpgAYYQ6AF6BAgLEAM#v=onepage&q=The%20pronounced%20shoulder%20hump%20is%20actually%20a%20powerful%20muscle%20the%20bear%20uses%20for%20digging.&f=false
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://books.google.it/books?id=abLCCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT20&dq=The+pronounced+shoulder+hump+is+actually+a+powerful+muscle+the+bear+uses+for+digging.&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicmIfHgZvzAhVFKuwKHUr3AeMQ6AF6BAgDEAM#v=onepage&q=The%20pronounced%20shoulder%20hump%20is%20actually%20a%20powerful%20muscle%20the%20bear%20uses%20for%20digging.&f=false
That is why I believe the kodiak bear is stronger pound to pound although I agree with you a polar bear with a decent weight advantage will be stronger. Feel free to disagree.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - GreenGrolar - 06-05-2022
*This image is copyright of its original author
The polar bear's jaws are more suited to deal with squirming prey although the kodiak bear has a bigger head and thicker neck. Interesting.
RE: The "King" of the bears - comparison between the Polar bear and the Brown bear - GuateGojira - 06-05-2022
(06-05-2022, 10:54 AM)GreenGrolar Wrote: However, brown bear's seem to have a more developed shoulder hump:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://books.google.it/books?id=D6YTYq5ShTIC&pg=PA41&dq=The+pronounced+shoulder+hump+is+actually+a+powerful+muscle+the+bear+uses+for+digging.&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjG4_jtgpvzAhXPDOwKHXpgAYYQ6AF6BAgLEAM#v=onepage&q=The%20pronounced%20shoulder%20hump%20is%20actually%20a%20powerful%20muscle%20the%20bear%20uses%20for%20digging.&f=false
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://books.google.it/books?id=abLCCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT20&dq=The+pronounced+shoulder+hump+is+actually+a+powerful+muscle+the+bear+uses+for+digging.&hl=it&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwicmIfHgZvzAhVFKuwKHUr3AeMQ6AF6BAgDEAM#v=onepage&q=The%20pronounced%20shoulder%20hump%20is%20actually%20a%20powerful%20muscle%20the%20bear%20uses%20for%20digging.&f=false
That is why I believe the kodiak bear is stronger pound to pound although I agree with you a polar bear with a decent weight advantage will be stronger. Feel free to disagree.
Interesting information and I appreciate it, however at least one bear expert will disagree in the last point (the hump), check what Dr Andrew Derocher (2012) says about it:
*This image is copyright of its original author
He says that grizzly bears hump is just more exacerbated because of the skin, not because is bigger itself.
It make sense, as polar bears are active hunters and, in theory, they should be stronger to kill its prey, which like you showed, it could be even belugas and walruses of large size.
I don't know what you think? After all, my data on bears is not as large as in felids.