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+---- Thread: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines (/topic-freak-felids-a-discussion-of-history-s-largest-felines)
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - genao87 - 08-23-2017
(08-16-2017, 08:36 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:(08-16-2017, 05:19 AM)genao87 Wrote: Then I am assuming that is underworks?? Or is this from some private collectors who refuses to let scientists or anybody touch their collection???
These guys have spent at least $10K or even more to buy those organic jewels, so I don't think they will ever share it with other people, including the scientific community.
So the real maximum potential of the Siberian tiger will remain unknown.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Damn I just kind of new this type of knews was coming and it came.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-23-2017
(08-23-2017, 09:17 AM)genao87 Wrote: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Damn I just kind of new this type of knews was coming and it came.
When you don't have anything else but teeth, so it can also become a good source of body size estimation, just look how the scientific community used to figure the body size of the Megalodon with only the estimation from its teeth.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-27-2017
Cave lion mandible from Russia 31 cm long, lower canine teeth 13 cm long.
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-27-2017
The Siberian tiger met the Cave lion in the late Pleistocene China/Manchuria.
I guess the Cave lions from China were also the Eurasian one, not the Beringian one which exclusive lived in Beringia/Alaska.
@Spalea
*This image is copyright of its original author
https://prehistoric-fauna.com/Cave-lion-and-Amur-tiger
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - genao87 - 08-27-2017
That image depicts the Siberian Tiger to be the same size as the Panthera Spelaea. I am assuming that it also met the N. Tiger as well. I believe you mentioned in the past that the Siberian Tiger and the N. Tiger could of crossbreed.
haha the Megalodon.....always debating its true natural size and its potential fight with Leviathan Melville (spelling). I guess I have to accept it if Megalodon really weigh that much. Not much more info on the weights of Leviathan besides being a POSSIBLY new species indicating that it went extinct much later, thus surviving longer than expected.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-27-2017
(08-27-2017, 05:48 AM)genao87 Wrote: That image depicts the Siberian Tiger to be the same size as the Panthera Spelaea. I am assuming that it also met the N. Tiger as well. I believe you mentioned in the past that the Siberian Tiger and the N. Tiger could of crossbreed.
haha the Megalodon.....always debating its true natural size and its potential fight with Leviathan Melville (spelling). I guess I have to accept it if Megalodon really weigh that much. Not much more info on the weights of Leviathan besides being a POSSIBLY new species indicating that it went extinct much later, thus surviving longer than expected.
They could indeed interbreed with each other.
However, these two tigers didn't share the same habitat, so it is unlikely that they could meet each other.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Ngala - 09-13-2017
Homotherium from Middle Pleistocene archaeological and carnivore den sites of Germany – Taxonomy, taphonomy and a revision of the Schöningen, West Runton and other saber-tooth cat sites Diedrich & McFarlane, 2017
*This image is copyright of its original author
Abstract:
"Four new saber-tooth cat (Homotherium) sites in Germany with new dental and postcranial bone material are different in their taphonomic context: 1. The Archaeological Middle Palaeolithic (MIS 9e-Interglacial) Schöningen Lake site with remains of a cub carcass, 2. The Middle Palaeolithic (MIS 5e-9) Archaeological/cave bear den site of Balve Cave yielding a lower canine tooth of an older individual, 3. The Zoolithen Cave (MIS 3–9) cave bear/hyena den with one distal half humerus of an adult, 4. The Ketsch open air Rhine River terrace site which has provided another distal humerus of an adult saber-tooth cat. Whereas only the Schöningen site is precisely dated as Holsteinian Interglacial (approx. 330.000–315.000 BP), all other material seems to come from the same Middle Pleistocene warm period, or few younger Saalian interstadials (MIS 7a, e) deposits, and did not extend over the last MIS 7 glacial into the Late Pleistocene. Homotherium as hyena-like slow moving cat seems to have disappeared within the Saalian due to competition with other scavengers like Ice Age spotted and brown hyenas (Crocuta crocuta praespelaea/ultima and Pachycrocuta brunnea mosbachensis). The juvenile saber-tooth cat cub from Schöningen might be in archaeological context or represent only a carnivore kill. At the Zoolithen Cave, the single bone must have been imported into a hyena prey bone assemblage. The situation is possibly similar at the two other sites Ketsch and Balve Cave. The formerly described Schöningen “saber-tooth cat” humerus is revised, such as other opposite as lion humeri described material from different European sites. The presence of the well-developed supracondylar ridge distinguishes Homotherium well from Middle/Late Pleistocene lions Panthera leo (e.g. spelaea, fossilis). The Schöningen lion humrus has been chew-cut first most probably by a stripped hyena whose cutting scissor teeth produced a diagonal bite cut and P4/M1 impact marks around the trochlea. 1–2 mm small, mostly triangular-oval bite marks on the lion humerus shaft compacta results from a second scavenger and not from “Neanderthal tool use”. Those bite mark sizes are produced mainly of the upper molar teeth of a the red wolf Cuon alpinus subsp. (or small fox Vulpes praecorsac), which were present in the region within the Holsteinian/Saalian."
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Richardrli - 09-19-2017
(08-02-2016, 01:52 AM)tigerluver Wrote: A very new article on estimating the mass of cats. Discuss this one in a bit. Until then, take a read and share your thoughts.
A new specimen-dependent method of estimating felid body mass
Any follow up on this? The link shows it as still not been peer reviewed.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Richardrli - 09-19-2017
This very recent paper is very interesting, it would seem that very large lions existed in East Africa around 200,000 years ago. Unfortunately, the details aren't up yet.
https://datadryad.org/resource/doi:10.5061/dryad.279n4
Anybody who can access this, please do share it with us!
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - epaiva - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 07:21 PM)Richardrli Wrote: This very recent paper is very interesting, it would seem that very large lions existed in East Africa around 200,000 years ago. Unfortunately, the details aren't up yet.
https://datadryad.org/resource/doi:10.5061/dryad.279n4
Anybody who can access this, please do share it with us!
Hope somebody can upload that information
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 09-19-2017
The lion paper is not out yet and thus the data still embargoed. Usually there's a one year gap between submission and official publication at minimum. When it is out I'll have it here. If the paper still comes through the Journal of Paleo the next volume is out in November. Maybe it will be in that volume.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - epaiva - 09-19-2017
(09-19-2017, 08:42 PM)tigerluver Wrote: The lion paper is not out yet and thus the data still embargoed. Usually there's a one year gap between submission and official publication at minimum. When it is out I'll have it here. If the paper still comes through the Journal of Paleo the next volume is out in November. Maybe it will be in that volume.
@tigerluver
thanks, I will be waiting for the valuable information
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - genao87 - 09-25-2017
Cant read the paper..going to be busy for a while. Are these true lions...Panthera Leo or some other type of cat that was consider a lion and was another species of cat??
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 09-25-2017
(09-25-2017, 09:18 AM)genao87 Wrote: Cant read the paper..going to be busy for a while. Are these true lions...Panthera Leo or some other type of cat that was consider a lion and was another species of cat??
These are giant African lions without any doubt.
It is Panthera leo, not Panthera spelaea.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - genao87 - 10-10-2017
Is that paper out yet or not?? Tiger Luver mentioned it is not out. Would love to see how big these past Lions and Tigers became!