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+----- Thread: Lions of Timbavati (/topic-lions-of-timbavati)
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RE: Lions of Timbavati - T I N O - 11-05-2022
"A visit to the old stomping grounds at Africa on Foot delivered a few moments with a dear old friend. What a pleasure to see a member of the Vuyela coalition: bigger, bolder and building his empire in this corner of the Klaserie Private Nature Reserve. Having sired a new generation of lions in my absence, this chap (and his brothers) have really come into their own." -
PC: Rohan Roams
Klaserie PNR,Africa on Foot,posted|05.11.22
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Lions of Timbavati - T I N O - 11-05-2022
River pride male Socha looking cool at Senalala Lodge in Klaserie
PC: Geema Wegner
Klaserie PNR,posted|01.11.22
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Ngonya - 11-05-2022
(11-05-2022, 05:25 AM)criollo2mil Wrote:(11-05-2022, 02:47 AM)Ngonya Wrote:(11-04-2022, 07:36 AM)Cunaguaro Wrote: Turn up the volume??
Ryan got a great recent sight of the four Black Dam males roaring. They are basically six offspring of the legendary Giraffe male. Their confidence increases every day. They killed the Monwana male a few weeks ago and kicked out his partner. Surely these males will cause a big change in the dynamic soon.
Thornybush, South Africa.
Photographer Credit: @ryan.johnston.madness
The Monwana male who was killed was a established/dominant male?
No, he was nomadic. He was partner to the Guernsey YM who escaped Kampama fences onto Thornybush area
really sad he didnt even get a chance to spread his genes and be a pride male.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 11-06-2022
(11-05-2022, 11:22 PM)Ngonya Wrote: really sad he didnt even get a chance to spread his genes and be a pride male.
Yea, such a shame, its always sad to see young nomadic male get killed, but thats the life of male lions, few make to nomadic phase, even fewer to be territorial males.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Mdz123 - 11-06-2022
Vuyela male?
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 11-06-2022
(11-06-2022, 12:08 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(11-05-2022, 11:22 PM)Ngonya Wrote: really sad he didnt even get a chance to spread his genes and be a pride male.
Yea, such a shame, its always sad to see young nomadic male get killed, but thats the life of male lions, few make to nomadic phase, even fewer to be territorial males.
Something I've noticed, in reading up on the Asiatic Lions, I do not see them building coalitions as prevalently as we see with the African Lions, the rate of lions killing other lions also does not seem as high. I wonder if these two observations are related, that perhaps the male Asiatic Lions are not as aggressive as the African Lions, because it is much more likely to be a 1V1 situation, raising the likelihood that they will both be injured should conflict occur.
I also wonder if the prevalence of African Lion coalitions might be a relatively newer phenomenon, within the last 50-60 years newer. When I was a child, in the 70s, I recall a wildlife show about lions, Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdon, they were showing a male lion and his pride, and he was attacked by one male and the pride male won the fight. The beaten male then later returned with a brother, and together they beat and drove off the pride male. I remember the host of the show, Marlin Perkins, commenting on how seeing male lions pairing up to take the pride of another was a rare thing to witness in the wild, at that time, making the child me angry that they did not fight him fairly. It is obviously possible that Marlin Perkins simply wasn't aware of such things happening, but he did openly comment about the rare occurrence.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Duco Ndona - 11-06-2022
Probably the latter. Animal behavioural studies are only just coming out of the dark ages and documentaries are sadly not the front runners of up-to-date science. We are only now discovering the rich social life of typically solitary animals like cheetah and tigers as well.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Potato - 11-06-2022
(11-06-2022, 12:21 AM)Mdz123 Wrote: Vuyela male?Old photo of Giraffe male, father of the 6 young BD males.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - BA0701 - 11-06-2022
(11-06-2022, 01:06 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: Probably the latter. Animal behavioural studies are only just coming out of the dark ages and documentaries are sadly not the front runners of up-to-date science. We are only now discovering the rich social life of typically solitary animals like cheetah and tigers as well.
You may very well be right, and if so it raises the question as to why so many of the wildlife shows from those early days, the ones featuring lions, seemed to typically show single males controlling prides. For a large portion of my life, I had believed, thanks to these very shows, that male coalitions controlling prides were the exception to the rule, with there being many more single male dominated prides. However, as I began learning more about these creatures, we see today that it is quite the opposite, with single African male dominated prides for sure being much less predominant than coalition dominated prides.
Of course there could be a lot of reasons for this, as you mentioned, it may have simply always been this way.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - sik94 - 11-06-2022
(11-06-2022, 03:31 AM)BA0701 Wrote: You may very well be right, and if so it raises the question as to why so many of the wildlife shows from those early days, the ones featuring lions, seemed to typically show single males controlling prides. For a large portion of my life, I had believed, thanks to these very shows, that male coalitions controlling prides were the exception to the rule, with there being many more single male dominated prides. However, as I began learning more about these creatures, we see today that it is quite the opposite, with single African male dominated prides for sure being much less predominant than coalition dominated prides.
Of course there could be a lot of reasons for this, as you mentioned, it may have simply always been this way.
I have seen all those documentaries as well and I agree that most of them seem to suggest that most prides have just a single dominant male. Those documentaries usually are meant for a different demographic, they try to keep things simple and general so the people who know nothing about lions won't be overwhelmed by the information. I literally had an argument about this with someone from South Africa on discord, she thought coalitions dominating prides was not even a thing that happened. I had higher expectations from someone who actually lived in South Africa. Lol. So yeah, not everyone is an absolute nerd about the intricacies of lion behavior and commercially produced nature documentaries would never try to go into detail about everything that lions do.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Tr1x24 - 11-06-2022
Well, roots of lions as species span up to couple of million years, and lion as we know today spans for couple of ten to couple of hundred thousands years, so its very unlikely they "learn" this behavior just recently in the past 50,100 or even 1000 years.
But, with emerging of humans as most dominant "animal" in the world, who gradually "took" their inhabitat, it might be that this "behavior" of "grouping" , is something recent, because lack of space.
But then, its also quite interesting why only lions showcase this behavior, and sometimes male cheetahs, but no other cats alive, so this might be "newer" chapter in their evolution, something which all cat species would eventually develop in the near or far future.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - Duco Ndona - 11-06-2022
Its worth noting that the most famous coalition in history, the Tsavos, were around already in 1898.
RE: Lions of Timbavati - criollo2mil - 11-06-2022
“ Saw the biggest male lion, his call to his brother was so loud too! We had the best guides!! Saw the big 5, and just about every animal out there! They put us so close to everything all the time it was amazing!! Hard to top that start to a honeymoon, but winelands and much more fun in south Africa to come with @caylala12 “
RE: Lions of Timbavati - DARK MANE - 11-06-2022
(11-06-2022, 09:20 AM)criollo2mil Wrote: “ Saw the biggest male lion, his call to his brother was so loud too! We had the best guides!! Saw the big 5, and just about every animal out there! They put us so close to everything all the time it was amazing!! Hard to top that start to a honeymoon, but winelands and much more fun in south Africa to come with @caylala12 “
Zigzag scar mbiri!!
RE: Lions of Timbavati - sik94 - 11-06-2022
(11-06-2022, 06:15 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: But, with emerging of humans as most dominant "animal" in the world, who gradually "took" their inhabitat, it might be that this "behavior" of "grouping" , is something recent, because lack of space.
Well, modern lions have been around much longer than modern humans. Modern humans like us have only been around for 250,000 years, while lions(Panthera Leo) have been around for about 2 million years. This exact species we follow, It's been around way longer than humans. We took over the world very recently and we are not the reason cats became social. This behavior of working in social groups isn't something that developed recently and definitely wasn't because of lack of space. Cats may have become social due to strong competition, the lionesses who allowed their cubs to stay with her past the age of sexual maturity probably had an advantage over others in terms of holding territory and success in hunting. That's probably how the first pride of lion came to be, an overly attached mother and her fully grown offspring(especially daughters) refusing to part ways and enjoying the advantage they had in numbers. You could ask wouldn't sons also stick around and refused to leave their mother/pride past the age of sexual maturity? If there weren't the threat of a new coalition coming in or the fathers pushing the young males out, they probably would stay with the pride as long as possible.