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+---- Thread: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) (/topic-the-cave-lion-panthera-spelaea-and-panthera-fossilis)
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Stripedlion2 - 07-15-2020
https://siberiantimes.com/science/casestudy/news/stunning-pictures-of-the-worlds-only-uniquely-preserved-cave-lion-cubs-as-new-secrets-revealed/ Looks like spartak was actually a girl and her name was changed to sparta. Boris and Sparta actually weren’t siblings they’re separated by 26,000 years . And the one cub thought to be a lynx was actually a cave lion . Boris died 50,000 years ago . What was the estimated weight for cave lions 50,000 years ago?
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Stripedlion2 - 07-16-2020
I also forgot to mention that they’re going to use the african lioness as the surrogate so if the cat is born it won’t be 100% cave lion but it will have a lot of cave lion genes and physical qualities. Pleistocene park is where they could be reintroduced if it’s a success. I don’t know how that will work ,will they just raise the cave lion cub and then release it when it’s old enough or will they send an African lioness to Siberia to teach the cubs how to be a lion? I don’t know a lot of questions that need to be answered.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - epaiva - 07-16-2020
Fantastic display of Cave Lions hunting a young Mammoth in Landenmuseum for Prehistoric in Halle, Germany
Credit to John Janssen
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Stripedlion2 - 07-17-2020
Cave lions look like huge maneless lions.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Stripedlion2 - 07-17-2020
If you look at tiger,lion,cave lion,jaguar,and leopard cubs ,cave lions look almost identical to lions if it is true that cave lions are a separate species (which it looks like they are) then the cave lion and lion are probably like how the jaguar and leopard are . Jags and leopards look very similar but the jaguar is stockier and quite a bit heavier the leopard is skinnier . The cave lion is probably the closets relative to lions out of all the big cats imo. It would be dope to see cave lions live. We got 5 cubs that are perfectly preserved with good DNA it’s totally possible it could happen but it won’t be easy.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Stripedlion2 - 07-28-2020
https://www.beringia.com/sites/default/files/Beringia%20Research%20Note%208%20Steppe%20Bison.pdf Blue babe was around 700-800 kg so around the same size as a large bull Cape buffalo. And steppe bison could reach up to 2 meters in height and up to 1,100 kg herehttps://prehistoric-fauna.com/Bison-priscus
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Sully - 07-29-2020
New cave lion paper
Early Pleistocene origin and extensive intra-species diversity of the extinct cave lion
Abstract
The cave lion is an extinct felid that was widespread across the Holarctic throughout the Late Pleistocene. Its closest extant relative is the lion (Panthera leo), but the timing of the divergence between these two taxa, as well as their taxonomic ranking are contentious. In this study we analyse 31 mitochondrial genome sequences from cave lion individuals that, through a combination of 14C and genetic tip dating, are estimated to be from dates extending well into the mid-Pleistocene. We identified two deeply diverged and well-supported reciprocally monophyletic mitogenome clades in the cave lion, and an additional third distinct lineage represented by a single individual. One of these clades was restricted to Beringia while the other was prevalent across western Eurasia. These observed clade distributions are in line with previous observations that Beringian and European cave lions were morphologically distinct. The divergence dates for these lineages are estimated to be far older than those between extant lions subspecies. By combining our radiocarbon tip-dates with a split time prior that takes into account the most up-to-date fossil stem calibrations, we estimated the mitochondrial DNA divergence between cave lions and lions to be 1.85 Million ya (95% 0.52– 2.91 Mya). Taken together, these results support previous hypotheses that cave lions existed as at least two subspecies during the Pleistocene, and that lions and cave lions were distinct species.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Stripedlion2 - 07-30-2020
So cave lions are a distinct species but are closest related to the lion today.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - GrizzlyClaws - 07-30-2020
(07-30-2020, 01:21 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote: So cave lions are a distinct species but are closest related to the lion today.
Maybe the difference is similar to today's mainland clouded leopard/sunda clouded leopard, chimpanzee/bonobo, eastern/western gorilla.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Stripedlion2 - 07-30-2020
So is the cave lion still technically a lion or no?
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - GrizzlyClaws - 07-30-2020
(07-30-2020, 02:24 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote: So is the cave lion still technically a lion or no?
I think so, just like both mainland clouded leopard and sunda clouded leopard are still both clouded leopard despite being classified as two separated species.
I think the nature of difference of the cave lion and modern lion should be comparable to this.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Stripedlion2 - 07-30-2020
They do look very similar . Cave lions are larger with no mane and they aren’t as social as the lions today . They do have some tiger like features . How much did cave lions weigh ? What was the average and maximum?
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - GrizzlyClaws - 07-30-2020
(07-30-2020, 02:42 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote: They do look very similar . Cave lions are larger with no mane and they aren’t as social as the lions today . They do have some tiger like features . How much did cave lions weigh ? What was the average and maximum?
The Eurasian Cave lions were the largest subspecies, and they did have a lot of convergent features with tiger.
The males should average about 250 kg and close to 400 kg max.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - Balam - 07-30-2020
(07-30-2020, 02:21 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:(07-30-2020, 01:21 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote: So cave lions are a distinct species but are closest related to the lion today.
Maybe the difference is similar to today's mainland clouded leopard/sunda clouded leopard, chimpanzee/bonobo, eastern/western gorilla.
I've always thought the clouded leopard analogy is perfect when trying to explain the lion clades to others. While genetically distinct enough to be separate species, they both (plus P.atrox, P.youngi, and P. leo? fossilis) come from the same basal lineage and can be considered a close lion clade within the genus Panthera.
RE: The Cave Lion (Panthera spelaea and Panthera fossilis) - GrizzlyClaws - 07-30-2020
(07-30-2020, 06:24 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote:(07-30-2020, 02:21 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:(07-30-2020, 01:21 AM)Stripedlion2 Wrote: So cave lions are a distinct species but are closest related to the lion today.
Maybe the difference is similar to today's mainland clouded leopard/sunda clouded leopard, chimpanzee/bonobo, eastern/western gorilla.
I've always thought the clouded leopard analogy is perfect when trying to explain the lion clades to others. While genetically distinct enough to be separate species, they both (plus P.atrox, P.youngi, and P. leo? fossilis) come from the same basal lineage and can be considered a close lion clade within the genus Panthera.
Yep, all species within the lion clade should be considered as the genuine lions.
Being interspecific shouldn't be a big deal at all.